Truck attack in NYC

nsacpi said:
Actually, I have no trouble saying Christ is a more attractive figure than Muhammad. But I do have a lot of trouble saying that from this it follows that Christ's followers will be better behaved. For long stretches of history that has not been the case. Read any history of Spain for example and compare the behavior of the Christians and Muslims.

And I disagree that Christianity has not spread by the sword. There are awful episodes of Christianity being forcibly imposed on non-Christian peoples. See the choices given to Spanish and Portuguese Jews for examples.
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I didn't say that you would. My point is that Christ followers ought to be "better behaved" if they are emulating Him and his teaching than a follower of Muhammad who emulates him.

The Moorish culture in Spain I believe was one of the most beautiful expressions of an Islamic society and like you, no doubt, wish other Muslim societies would look more like it. And I think the Spanish Inquisition was one of the most vile expressions of "Christianity" and one totally anti-Christ. Got no problem saying that at all.
 
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BedellBrave said:
That's something of a dodge. And you know that I am saying that as one who believes in original sin and the total depravity of humanity.
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I don't see it as a dodge. I've fully admitted (like nsacpi) that I have no problem calling Christ a more attractive figure than Muhammad, based on what biographical information we have (and I should say here that I am a believer in the non-contemporary authorship of the gospels). But I'm also no more willing to call Islam a cult of violence based on Muhammad's biography than I am to call Judaism a cult of violence because of David's.

For what it's worth, I'm also almost always a fan of heterodoxies versus orthodoxies when it comes to wisdom, whether that's religious or spiritual or intellectual or emotional. I think Christianity has improved and become more true to Christ's teachings through heterodoxy, and I have no problem asking Islam to become more heterodox, especially when it comes to theocratic impulses.
 
If the barometer of the way to live is their prophet then how can we expect them to become less violent?
 
jpx7 said:
I don't see it as a dodge. I've fully admitted (like nsacpi) that I have no problem calling Christ a more attractive figure than Muhammad, based on what biographical information we have (and I should say here that I am a believer in the non-contemporary authorship of the gospels). But I'm also no more willing to call Islam a cult of violence based on Muhammad's biography than I am to call Judaism a cult of violence because of David's.

For what it's worth, I'm also almost always a fan of heterodoxies versus orthodoxies when it comes to wisdom, whether that's religious or spiritual or intellectual or emotional. I think Christianity has improved and become more true to Christ's teachings through heterodoxy, and I have no problem asking Islam to become more heterodox, especially when it comes to theocratic impulses.
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Theories of late authorship of the Gospels are convenient and in keeping with anti-supernatural presuppositions of secularists. Dang Germans! Got to watch'm like a hawk.

They are also somewhat fascinating in relation to this discussion. Let's for argument sake, grant that the Gospels were written late by communities of Christians. I suppose one of the surmises is that they wanted to paint a picture of a peace-loving Messiah. But why would that be?
 
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jpx7 said:
I don't see it as a dodge. I've fully admitted (like nsacpi) that I have no problem calling Christ a more attractive figure than Muhammad, based on what biographical information we have (and I should say here that I am a believer in the non-contemporary authorship of the gospels). But I'm also no more willing to call Islam a cult of violence based on Muhammad's biography than I am to call Judaism a cult of violence because of David's.

For what it's worth, I'm also almost always a fan of heterodoxies versus orthodoxies when it comes to wisdom, whether that's religious or spiritual or intellectual or emotional. I think Christianity has improved and become more true to Christ's teachings through heterodoxy, and I have no problem asking Islam to become more heterodox, especially when it comes to theocratic impulses.
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It wouldn't be through heterodoxy, if orthodoxy means in part right teaching about Christ (which it does).
 
jpx7 said:
I don't see it as a dodge. I've fully admitted (like nsacpi) that I have no problem calling Christ a more attractive figure than Muhammad, based on what biographical information we have (and I should say here that I am a believer in the non-contemporary authorship of the gospels). But I'm also no more willing to call Islam a cult of violence based on Muhammad's biography than I am to call Judaism a cult of violence because of David's.

For what it's worth, I'm also almost always a fan of heterodoxies versus orthodoxies when it comes to wisdom, whether that's religious or spiritual or intellectual or emotional. I think Christianity has improved and become more true to Christ's teachings through heterodoxy, and I have no problem asking Islam to become more heterodox, especially when it comes to theocratic impulses.
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So you aren't claiming that the viable threats (local police force rushed my friends out of the city) to storm our hospital and murder my friends is a symptom solely of a general intolerance of other religions and has nothing to do with Islam? And you admit that's there is something within the biography of its founder and it's teachings that may fuel such hatred?
 
Chris Murphy‏Verified account @ChrisMurphyCT

Now I get it. If the killer is an immigrant you can talk about policy change, but if he's natural born, you're "politicizing the tragedy".
 
Spare me the " religious " war nonsense.
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After Las Vegas Mass Shooting
Move along, nothing to see here.
By Igor Bobic



A leading manufacturer of bump stocks, devices that make semi-automatic weapons function like machine guns, told customers on Tuesday it is resuming sales of them in limited qualities.

“We would like to take the time to thank all of our customers for their patience and support throughout this past month!” Slide Fire, the company that produces the devices, said in an email, according to The Trace.

The announcement comes just one month after the mass shooting in Las Vegas ― the deadliest such shooting in modern U.S. history. Law enforcement officials said the gunman, Stephen Paddock, used weapons modified with bump stocks to kill 58 people and injure over 500 others at a country music concert outside the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino.

Texas-based Slide Fire temporarily suspended sales of bump stocks in the wake of the Oct. 1 attack, and demand quickly spiked for the devices across the country amid fears they would soon be outlawed.

The push in Congress for a legislative ban on bump stocks, however, has stalled. Lawmakers have introduced several bills that would do so, but the effort was kneecapped after the National Rifle Association, the powerful gun lobby, said the matter ought to be handled via existing regulations rather than new laws.

Under such a scenario, the Trump administration would direct the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to outlaw bump stocks and similar devices. The ATF is reviewing whether it has the authority to do so. Democrats, however, note the agency has previously said it cannot regulate bump stocks under existing laws.

Earlier this week, a bipartisan group of lawmakers introduced legislation that would regulate the purchases of bump stocks ― but not ban them outright. The bill, authored by Reps. Brian Fitzpatrick (R-Pa.) and Dina Titus (D-Nev.), would require people who wish to purchase a bump stock to register with ATF, pass a background check, and pay a $200 fee.

“Anyone who wants a device that modifies a firearm to shoot hundreds of rounds per minute should undergo thorough background checks and oversight,” Titus, who represents the city of Las Vegas, said in a statement.
 
BedellBrave said:
Let it also be noted for the record, that I had to be scuttled out of a country due to the assassination of a Muslim Governor. His "crime?" Daring to question his country's blasphemy laws routinely used against Christians.

So pardon me if I don't get on board with this Western, naive, and patronizing view of Islam held by folk who've taken Comparative Religions 101. Oh btw, let it also be put on the record that I love Muslims and will continue to seek to reach them no matter the risks...
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For the record, you calling anything patronizing is funny. Reach yourself.
 
BedellBrave said:
Theories of late authorship of the Gospels are convenient and in keeping with anti-supernatural presuppositions of secularists. Dang Germans! Got to watch'm like a hawk.

They are also somewhat fascinating in relation to this discussion. Let's for argument sake, grant that the Gospels were written late by communities of Christians. I suppose one of the surmises is that they wanted to paint a picture of a peace-loving Messiah. But why would that be?
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I have plenty of theories and suppositions, but why don't you just tell me why you think that would be.
 
BedellBrave said:
So you aren't claiming that the viable threats (local police force rushed my friends out of the city) to storm our hospital and murder my friends is a symptom solely of a general intolerance of other religions and has nothing to do with Islam? And you admit that's there is something within the biography of its founder and it's teachings that may fuel such hatred?
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It maybe be the staggered nature of the clauses, but I'm genuinely not sure what you're asking / getting at here. Regardless, all I admitted was that I'm personally a lot more inspired by the literary figure of Christ than of Muhammad, qualified by the admission that I'm "no more willing to call Islam a cult of violence based on Muhammad's biography than I am to call Judaism a cult of violence because of David's".
 
Mike Pence: I don't think gays should be allowed to marry

Muslims: Gays should be murdered

Goldfly: Mike Pence and Muslims are the same
 
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