Russia Collusion Scandal (aka A Leftist fantasy)

I'm very curious about what Papadopoulos was up to in the weeks ahead of his arrest...there is a small amount of information in the public domain but it is pretty fragmentary
 
Julio3000 said:
Uh, it's not material that the ****ing campaign manager had an undisclosed 10-figure financial relationship with a Russian puppet political party? Or, as we've subsequently learned, that he was deep in the hole to a Russian oligarch and sought to use his position to "get whole?" How is that extraneous?
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So whats the exchange then? If this is a HUGE piece of the case for collusion what happened? How did the making whole lead to the collusion efforts?
 
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Another reasonable explanation. Sure is convenient timing to release this story as more is being learned about the use/importance of the Dossier.
 
thethe said:
So whats the exchange then? If this is a HUGE piece of the case for collusion what happened? How did the making whole lead to the collusion efforts?
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I'm responding to your saying it's extraneous. It's not--not if one is intellectually honest, anyway. I don't know what "the exchange" was, or if there was one. It's also quite possible Manafort was canned before he had a chance to do anything but passive influence, if indeed there was any intent at all. But if you're remotely grounded in reality, that guy seeking out the campaign and volunteering to work for free is a neon-lit blinking sign that says "investigate me."
 
Julio3000 said:
I'm responding to your saying it's extraneous. It's not--not if one is intellectually honest, anyway. I don't know what "the exchange" was, or if there was one. It's also quite possible Manafort was canned before he had a chance to do anything but passive influence, if indeed there was any intent at all. But if you're remotely grounded in reality, that guy seeking out the campaign and volunteering to work for free is a neon-lit blinking sign that says "investigate me."
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Fantastic. Investigate away. But it does not strengthen a case for collusion at all. Every single political candidate is targeted to gain influence by various special interests, many of those of foreign national variety. The FISA warrant documentation has been released. We are going to learn a lot in the next couple of weeks.
 
thethe said:
I am shocked that the NY Times is coming out with an article that is in essence a rebuke to the rights assertion about the importance of the Dossier. I never could have seen this coming! :)
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It's a pretty detailed story. They'd be going out on quite the limb if this isn't accurate.
 
I know this article is very long and will give most of you a headache to read, but it is the most complete account of what I think happened in terms of creating a financial dependency between Trump and the Russians.

http://www.newsweek.com/2017/12/29/donald-trump-russia-secret-deutsche-bank-753780.html

The money quote is from Richard Dearlove, the former head of British secret intelligence service MI6.

“What lingers for Trump may be what deals—on what terms—he did after the financial crisis of 2008 to borrow Russian money when others in the West would not lend to him.”
 
nsacpi said:
I know this article is very long and will give most of you a headache to read, but it is the most complete account of what I think happened in terms of creating a financial dependency between Trump and the Russians.

http://www.newsweek.com/2017/12/29/donald-trump-russia-secret-deutsche-bank-753780.html

The money quote is from Richard Dearlove, the former head of British secret intelligence service MI6.

“What lingers for Trump may be what deals—on what terms—he did after the financial crisis of 2008 to borrow Russian money when others in the West would not lend to him.”
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Never really feel like we've heard a convincing explanation for this one:

There was another Kushner-Kislyak meeting, on December 1 at Trump Tower. Flynn, Trump’s adviser, was present too, as Kushner made an unusual proposal: He asked Kislyak if it would be possible to set up a secret and secure communications channel between the Trump transition team and the Kremlin. The purpose, it seems, was to keep their conversations hidden from the outgoing Obama administration and U.S. intelligence. Could this be done, Kushner wondered, by using Russian diplomatic facilities in the United States? The inquiry was staggeringly naïve.
 
Julio3000 said:
Never really feel like we've heard a convincing explanation for this one:

There was another Kushner-Kislyak meeting, on December 1 at Trump Tower. Flynn, Trump’s adviser, was present too, as Kushner made an unusual proposal: He asked Kislyak if it would be possible to set up a secret and secure communications channel between the Trump transition team and the Kremlin. The purpose, it seems, was to keep their conversations hidden from the outgoing Obama administration and U.S. intelligence. Could this be done, Kushner wondered, by using Russian diplomatic facilities in the United States? The inquiry was staggeringly naïve.
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If you don't believe in the 'deep state' them this is a bad look. If you believe it exists it looks like a smart move.
 
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Further, for such an intricate Web of collusion it's odd how so many desperate attempts were made to have the trump campaign and Putin meet.
 
Julio3000 said:
There is no plausible situation in which this is a smart move.
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If you want to start building positive relations with a key world power without the obvious backlash from a desperate administration looking to keeps its skeletons in yhe closest then yes it's a good move.

We need Russia to play ball on iran/korea/Islamic terrorism. I know you've rejected that notion in the past ad you're entitled to that belief but that is what I'd happening in my opinion.

Even the article linked by nsacpi discusses the case of collusion by establishing this long Web of financial contacts and yet the papa case is of a beginning point in a relationship between the trump campaign and russia. So which is it?
 
thethe said:
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Further, for such an intricate Web of collusion it's odd how so many desperate attempts were made to have the trump campaign and Putin meet.
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I've read a somewhat different take. At the meeting where Papadopoulos talked up his contacts, Trump was interested but non-committal. Sessions is the guy who shut down the discussion.

I also think the campaign at some point realized (at about the time when Manafort was let go as campaign manager) that it was not in its interests to appear to be too close to the Russians.
 
nsacpi said:
I've read a somewhat different take. At the meeting where Papadopoulos talked up his contacts, Trump was interested but non-committal. Sessions is the guy who shut it down.
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Claiming he was interested is a reach but not out of bounds. But why wouldn't he be? You can have communications without collusion. I'm fully on board with enhancing relations with Russia while acknowledging they have their own self serving agenda.
 
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