McGuirk: Coppella Exit Like Cutting ‘Cancer’ To Move Ahead

Super said:
don't think stewart was there at the time.
but either way, Prado and Upton weren't super far apart for years after that trade. plus it brought us the disaster that was chris johnson and the subsequent contract extension.
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The disaster part of Chris Johnson, was the extension. If memory serves me correctly, as God knows my memory stinks!, He was good the first year we had him. Then, fell face down after that.
 
Super said:
don't think stewart was there at the time.

but either way, Prado and Upton weren't super far apart for years after that trade. plus it brought us the disaster that was chris johnson and the subsequent contract extension.
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Looks like Stewart was hired by the Dbacks right after Wren was fired so he wasn't in Wren's universe as a GM it seems.

The trade itself was great. Johnson had a great 1st season here but his extension was awful.
 
smootness said:
Holy cow, who gives a crap who was better? They're both gone and we're probably better off for it. Yes, Wren gets credit for Albies and Acuna. And still he left us with hardly any talent overall.
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The initial question I was posed was...who was worse?
 
sturg33 said:
Call me crazy, but if Wren had the chance to deal Heyward, Upton, Simmons, Kimbrel, Wood, Gattis, Peraza and had 3 years of high draft picks, I'd suspect our farm system would be better than it is today
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Sadly Wren was never given the chance at a rebuild on either end of his tenure here. Oh well. Luckily it looks like the people responsible for all these shenanigans are gone and AA has complete control of the team. Hoping that's the case anyways.
 
thewupk said:
Sadly Wren was never given the chance at a rebuild on either end of his tenure here. Oh well. Luckily it looks like the people responsible for all these shenanigans are gone and AA has complete control of the team. Hoping that's the case anyways.
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I feel like people are looking at the prospects coppy brought and saying how much better they are than Wrens. But they don't factor in the assets Coppy had to make it happen.

Wren was tasked with winning games, and he did a damn good job of it while leaving a team with a massive amount of young Major league talent (that Coppy got to trade away for a million pitching prospects)
 
sturg33 said:
I feel like people are looking at the prospects coppy brought and saying how much better they are than Wrens. But they don't factor in the assets Coppy had to make it happen.

Wren was tasked with winning games, and he did a damn good job of it while leaving a team with a massive amount of young Major league talent (that Coppy got to trade away for a million pitching prospects)
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Good point here. However, as I stated earlier, the main "stain" for me is when he signed Melvin Upton to that contract. He should have never offered that to him. Which in turn hurt our return on the Kimbrel trade.
 
thewupk said:
Sadly Wren was never given the chance at a rebuild on either end of his tenure here. Oh well. Luckily it looks like the people responsible for all these shenanigans are gone and AA has complete control of the team. Hoping that's the case anyways.
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JS and Cox are still hanging around and thus we will forever want to bring back the 90’s
 
Evad said:
Good point here. However, as I stated earlier, the main "stain" for me is when he signed Melvin Upton to that contract. He should have never offered that to him. Which in turn hurt our return on the Kimbrel trade.
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Melvin was a quality CF when he was brought to Atlanta. Sadly he just sucked beyond belief when he was here. But Melvin being attached to Kimbrel falls squarely on Hart and company.
 
thewupk said:
Melvin was a quality CF when he was brought to Atlanta. Sadly he just sucked beyond belief when he was here. But Melvin being attached to Kimbrel falls squarely on Hart and company.
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He might have been a decent defensive CF then, but couldn't hit his way out of a wet paper bag.
 
sturg33 said:
I feel like people are looking at the prospects coppy brought and saying how much better they are than Wrens. But they don't factor in the assets Coppy had to make it happen.

Wren was tasked with winning games, and he did a damn good job of it while leaving a team with a massive amount of young Major league talent (that Coppy got to trade away for a million pitching prospects)
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This is an outrageous assessment of the wren tenure in my view.

The braves never seriously contended for a title in my opinion and were in objectively bad shape when he was fired due to bad contracts, injury luck with pitchers, limited payroll and a completely depleted system.

He very easily could have liquidated assets as effectively as Coppy did. It’s impossible to know though.
 
sturg33 said:
Call me crazy, but if Wren had the chance to deal Heyward, Upton, Simmons, Kimbrel, Wood, Gattis, Peraza and had 3 years of high draft picks, I'd suspect our farm system would be better than it is today
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Problem with that is, if he were still here, he would have wanted to go for it..again...after a bad year..and we wouldn't have received anything.
We saw Wren's high draft picks. They stunk. Consistent low-ceiling garbage. He brought in a few good guys in some later rounds. But his drafting was overall atrocious and we had an insane lack of pitching. he could've still built a good farm while being given a good, successful team. but, he didn't. and that's going to kill a team with a middling-payroll.
 
Southcack77 said:
This is an outrageous assessment of the wren tenure in my view.

The braves never seriously contended for a title in my opinion and were in objectively bad shape when he was fired due to bad contracts, injury luck with pitchers, limited payroll and a completely depleted system.

He very easily could have liquidated assets as effectively as Coppy did. It’s impossible to know though.
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We definitely weren't ever serious contenders. Most of the players winning games for us during wren's tenure weren't even brought in by him, anyway. he was given a (very?) good base of talent and couldn't build around it at all.
 
Evad said:
He might have been a decent defensive CF then, but couldn't hit his way out of a wet paper bag.
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Melvin was coming off a 20/30 season. Had posted wrc+ years of 108, 113, and 107. Was a 3+ war player for 3 straight years in his prime. Saying he was bad prior to coming here is revisionist history.
 
thewupk said:
Melvin was coming off a 20/30 season. Had posted wrc+ years of 108, 113, and 107. Was a 3+ war player for 3 straight years in his prime. Saying he was bad prior to coming here is revisionist history.
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All true. But the fact remains that wren bid uptown against himself. He over paid for him when no one else was offering that much. But yes. Upton was not a bad player and people were excited about our outfield of upton x2 and Heyward.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
All true. But the fact remains that wren bid uptown against himself. He over paid for him when no one else was offering that much. But yes. Upton was not a bad player and people were excited about our outfield of upton x2 and Heyward.
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He overpaid slightly and I wouldn't have gone the extra year but those are generally minor grievances. If Melvin had continued to be a 3+ WAR player nobody would be complaining and I seriously doubt anyone projected him to fall off that badly either.
 
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