Surrender Summit
- Thread starter 57Brave
- Start date
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
child please, we probably killed civilians that specific day than died on that flight. We have killed 100 times as many civilians as Putin has since his risen to power. We incarcerate people at twice the rate of Russia. We condemn Russia for using the law to discriminate against gays but we still enforce Jim Crow laws. We are bombing 7 countries. How many is Russia actively bombing?
We should not demand a higher standard from foreign leaders than our own.
We should not demand a higher standard from foreign leaders than our own.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
actually we shot down an Iranian commercial aircraft...stuff happens...we expressed regret and compensated the families...it would be decent of the Russians to do something similar
sturg33
I
Your double standards on these issues are shocking
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
i am not beating the drums on the Malaysian airline jet being blown out of the sky by a Russian missile...these things happen...the Russians didn't plan for it to happen...but I think it would be a decent thing for them to compensate the families of the victims
we on otoh hand did in cold blood execute your buddy al Awlaki...and to that i say bravo and well done
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sturg33
I
57Brave
Well-known member
Completely agree, I think they should all be held accountable
but completely disagree with the whataboutism and the defense of well we do that too (~) so we should overlook others
I took a lot of grief over pointing out the needless killing of civilians ( estimates of 1/4 million) in Iraq .
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Trump in effect endorsed Putin. And all of the baggage therein
Your thoughts on the fate of the US Ambassador Trump considering tuning over to Putin ?
As bad as Bush/Cheney were I never even dreamed of what we are talking about now
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
Lets be clear here, we dominate the world. We really ruled the world with our ability to bully just about any country. Russia, China, and Iran are really the only meaningful holdouts. They are the bad guys because they refuse to kiss the ring, not because of their human rights abuses or lack of a real democracy. We have Russua surrounded so they felt they needed some a buffer zone to combat NATO aggression. Putin is a bad man but he actually acts a lot like American Presidents. Remember when we startes that whole preemptive war stuff and we actively wage war to protect our supply of resources. How is Russia's foreign policy any different?
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
I dont have a problem letting them question him as long as we controlled the enviroment, no way they should be alone with him.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
i would have preferred he show up in court to defend his rights as an American citizen as well...oh well...tis a shame he did not pursue that option...i believe it was available to him
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
actually the French refuse to kiss the ring too...we often get annoyed at them...God bless the annoying French
i'm glad you recognize Putin as being a bad man...i would say one of the ways he differs from American presidents is his fondness for polonium...American presidents seem to prefer drone strikes...any other differences? maybe someone from Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia would be better able to explain
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57Brave
Well-known member
You don't seem to understand the situation or the implications of the Russian "request"
57Brave
Well-known member
It's really not.
How are the Braves different from the Phillies today? (Red Sox - Yankees might be a better analogy )
Our history is horrible on human rights, Russian history is wrought with paranoia and contempt of/for outsiders . And too, purges of dissidents.
No, not talking about simply jailing of or marginalizing (as horrible as that too is ) but arresting and executing families. Or even the black listings and Rosenberg's of the early 50's
Not random "rogue" cop actions, but state sponsored purges.
I can think of actions aimed at a handful of Black Panthers in the late 60's early 70's but other than that --- we don't see the level of rights abuses here that are and have been common in Russia.
For centuries
Funny, at the time of Viet Nam (which too was an over reaction to Russian aggression) we would talk about how a 75years earlier, Russia was still living in the middle ages.
Literally
NATO aggression ?
My friend you need to read a little more about post WWII Europe
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nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I think we can make these distinctions while acknowledging the bad things from our past and present. Slavery. Genocide against Native Americans. Racial inequities today. Yes, police brutality.
American society is indeed imperfect. Our political system is imperfect. And we have a tendency to lecture others as if we were perfect. We throw our weight around carelessly. All true. But none of that obviates the need for us as a country to make all sorts of judgments about what is in the national interest and to act on those. As wisely as humanly possible, and recognizing that we have often been far from perfect.
The other thing I would point out is that for most countries the choice between inaction and action is not consequential. Switzerland can choose inaction on a whole bunch of matters and it does not matter a whit. It is simply not the same for us. Inaction is often as consequential as action (let alone wise action).
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cajunrevenge
Well-known member
based on US foreign policy in my lifetime I choose the consequences of inaction over what I have seen so far.
57Brave
Well-known member
Cajun, there is nothing new in the report you post. This information has been avaiable since the Church Inquiries of the mid 70's and obscure liberal writings of the 50's and 60's. ( today's Daily Kos or Democracy Now ?)
For example, 95% of our troubles in the middle east are a result of a 1954 coup in which the Eisenhower Administration overthrew Iranian leaders (?) and installed the Shah.
But as a people, just because the leaders of our country in the past have done these things does not mean I as a citizen do not have the right to object to outsiders (and / or in this case with the aid of US citizens) influencing / dictating the outcome of our elections and our POTUS turning a blind eye to those actions
We agree on inaction. Since WWII every conflict we have entered into (and lost I might add) was totally senseless
For example, 95% of our troubles in the middle east are a result of a 1954 coup in which the Eisenhower Administration overthrew Iranian leaders (?) and installed the Shah.
But as a people, just because the leaders of our country in the past have done these things does not mean I as a citizen do not have the right to object to outsiders (and / or in this case with the aid of US citizens) influencing / dictating the outcome of our elections and our POTUS turning a blind eye to those actions
We agree on inaction. Since WWII every conflict we have entered into (and lost I might add) was totally senseless
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cajunrevenge
Well-known member
many of those examples are from 1980 to 2000. Also Hillary was on tape saying they should have rigged the Palestinian vote so I have to believe its still going on.
Also feel the need we were caught spying on our own allies leaders so if anyone is out there spying for kompromat its the US.
Also feel the need we were caught spying on our own allies leaders so if anyone is out there spying for kompromat its the US.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
i'm curious...who rigged the Palestinian elections? us? the Israelis? the Palestinians?
and who was it rigged in favor? Fatah? Hamas?
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
she said they should have, not that they did.