KB21
Where's My Cup of Coffee?
Not me.
I'll go to a cash only concierge practice before I accept the expensive care act.
Affordable Care Act
- Thread starter 57Brave
- Start date
Not me.
I'll go to a cash only concierge practice before I accept the expensive care act.
They'd look stupid not to delay now because of the website glitches.
The Republicans delaying it just so they could have more time to try and get it repealed is not the same intention.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Don't confuse TP with pubs. Pubs just wanted to delay the fines just as Obama did with businesses. So unreasonable.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
Obama could have negotiated a delay with a new starting date. Not like he had to give in to an open ended delay. Truth is that he wanted the government shutdown just as much as Cruz did. He used it for a political advantage just like the republicans some of you complained about.
The republican negotiation starting point was incredibly far from unreasonable despite the crying and gnashing of teeth from the anti republican folks.
Their starting point went from:
Repeal it entirely (the last 2 years now).
to
Repeal the individual mandate.
to
Delay it a year.
to
Exempt Medical Tax.
to
Ok just want income verification.
Repeal it entirely (the last 2 years now).
to
Repeal the individual mandate.
to
Delay it a year.
to
Exempt Medical Tax.
to
Ok just want income verification.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
Yes, that's how negotiation works. Too bad the dems wouldn't even negotiate. We could have had a year delay and Obama wouldn't look like an idiot. Sometimes you cut off your nose to spite your face. Now I'm going to come up with some Dad jokes whilest awaiting a reply.
Tapate50
Well-known member
I guess that means the Dems weren't willing to negotiate even though it was in their best interest . I couldn't have spelled it out any better KL! What the pubs wanted was not crazy or unreasonable and anyone that was paying attention knows that . It does mean that there's a ton of blind homerism going on though.
The last 3 (medical device tax, mandate, income verification) were all save face last straw attempts that all happened in final 2 weeks. I mean you had Ted Cruz on the floor of the Senate for 21 hours pleading for a full repeal just 2 days before the shutdown.
The income verification was a bone just to say they got SOMETHING out of it.
And props to the Dems for not negotiating on something because the Pubs wanted to hold the country hostage. It was an unprecedented measure taken by the Republican Party, not done in history to hold the country hostage over something that was already passed into law and upheld by SCOTUS.
Several dems in the House AND Senate have been trying to form the conference committees to negotiate since last year and most since February LONG before the shutdown occurred. Boehner and Cantor blocked all of these proposals, and they finally decided at the 12th hour to propose conference committees.
YOu guys keep making it seem like the GOP have been negotiating in good faith the entire time. Simply not the case. They've been too busy trying to repeal Obamacare 56 times since they took control of the House.
And Obama for the most part is owning up to the computer glitches, don't see him blaming Bush or the Republicans. If he takes political hit for it, well he already knew the risk and Republicans should capitalize all over it. The problem is the GOP the last month was more interested in political theater than anything. Boehner had absolutely no control over his caucus at all.
The income verification was a bone just to say they got SOMETHING out of it.
And props to the Dems for not negotiating on something because the Pubs wanted to hold the country hostage. It was an unprecedented measure taken by the Republican Party, not done in history to hold the country hostage over something that was already passed into law and upheld by SCOTUS.
Several dems in the House AND Senate have been trying to form the conference committees to negotiate since last year and most since February LONG before the shutdown occurred. Boehner and Cantor blocked all of these proposals, and they finally decided at the 12th hour to propose conference committees.
YOu guys keep making it seem like the GOP have been negotiating in good faith the entire time. Simply not the case. They've been too busy trying to repeal Obamacare 56 times since they took control of the House.
And Obama for the most part is owning up to the computer glitches, don't see him blaming Bush or the Republicans. If he takes political hit for it, well he already knew the risk and Republicans should capitalize all over it. The problem is the GOP the last month was more interested in political theater than anything. Boehner had absolutely no control over his caucus at all.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
If the R's had been negotiating in good faith, and these were just common-sense things that needed to get done, they could have been done outside of the debt ceiling/budget process. They still could be.
Come on. Tapate, Weso, I know you are smart, reasonable guys. If those things need to get done, they can get done at a future date when there is a consensus about their necessity. "Negotiating" over the budget/debt ceiling was a bad political move that backfired, let's not pretend otherwise.
You are also making the lazy assumption the TP is part of the pub party. It isn't the truth.
It's lazy to conflate the two or treat them as interchangeable, and I admit that I've done that at times. It's not at all inaccurate to suggest that the TP is part—a significant and influential part—of the party.
Come on. Tapate, Weso, I know you are smart, reasonable guys. If those things need to get done, they can get done at a future date when there is a consensus about their necessity. "Negotiating" over the budget/debt ceiling was a bad political move that backfired, let's not pretend otherwise.
You are also making the lazy assumption the TP is part of the pub party. It isn't the truth.
It's lazy to conflate the two or treat them as interchangeable, and I admit that I've done that at times. It's not at all inaccurate to suggest that the TP is part—a significant and influential part—of the party.
57Brave
Well-known member
2009-10 (R) welcomed in the TeaParty with open arms. Until of course they proved to lose them votes rather than gain them votes. Kind of the Sarah Palin / Rush Limbaugh affect. We love you as long as you bring us votes. But the second you personally become toxic - well, he/she/they were "never really part of the establishment." Funny thing is they distance themselves from the person but not the policy. (R) still defends Palins right to use targets on Gabby Giffords , (R) still defends Limbaughs characterizations of Sandra Fluke and they will still hot button TP memes
Let's take the TP out of the 2010 equation. Then tell me it is a "lazy assumption the TP is part of the pub party"
Can you say Speaker Pelosi?
Look at the gains made in state races simply because of TP involvement. Without TP and (R) holing hands (R) doesn't get the assured reapportioned congressional districts. Assured for a decade!
Yeah, (R) and the TP are one and the same. I actually have more respect for the TP than (R). At least they have the stones to be up front about where they stand.
Say what you want about the tenets of the Tea Party, Dude- at least it's an ethos.
An unintended metaphor for the 2013 travails of the Obama Administration
Let's take the TP out of the 2010 equation. Then tell me it is a "lazy assumption the TP is part of the pub party"
Can you say Speaker Pelosi?
Look at the gains made in state races simply because of TP involvement. Without TP and (R) holing hands (R) doesn't get the assured reapportioned congressional districts. Assured for a decade!
Yeah, (R) and the TP are one and the same. I actually have more respect for the TP than (R). At least they have the stones to be up front about where they stand.
Say what you want about the tenets of the Tea Party, Dude- at least it's an ethos.
An unintended metaphor for the 2013 travails of the Obama Administration
Tapate50
Well-known member
On the last part I agree. I used the wrong terminology. But I'd wager that if you and Boehner were in a room and it was lock tite that nothing said in that room would ever see the light of day, he would tell you not to lump them in with those Martians.
I don't trust the government to implement common sense things on the fly. There is so much abuse running rampant, this was ripe for it and it was a no brainer that DEMs refused to budge on for the time being.
Tapate50
Well-known member
to BL 
. Wow.
sturg33
I
I love hearing that the "country was held hostage"
LOL. Yes, the 14% of government employees that were on paid vacation for 2 weeks pus us in great danger! Yet, 5 years ago, or 4 years ago, or 3 years ago, or 2 years ago! those 14% of folks weren't even needed. Now they are essential in keeping the country from being held hostage.
If anyone ever thought the country was going to default they are morons. That's why our country continued to run without issue. Obama was PLEADING for pain during the shutdown, but there simply wasn't any. Too bad for him. Maybe one day the public will realize we don't need all this government/spending/debt to survive.
Nah
LOL. Yes, the 14% of government employees that were on paid vacation for 2 weeks pus us in great danger! Yet, 5 years ago, or 4 years ago, or 3 years ago, or 2 years ago! those 14% of folks weren't even needed. Now they are essential in keeping the country from being held hostage.
If anyone ever thought the country was going to default they are morons. That's why our country continued to run without issue. Obama was PLEADING for pain during the shutdown, but there simply wasn't any. Too bad for him. Maybe one day the public will realize we don't need all this government/spending/debt to survive.
Nah
sturg33
I
Mr. President,
I was born at Centennial Medical Center in Nashville, Tennessee. My mother would later take a job delivering babies in that same operating room only a couple years later. My parents got a divorce when I was young. There were many times during the summer when she would be forced to take my sister and I to work with her. I vividly remember the child version of myself walking the halls of the same floor I was born on in fascination as the years passed. The anesthesiologists use to bring us candy and watch movies with us. When the holidays came, a nurse by the name of Patty Vaughn (we called her Granny), would have bags of presents for my sister and I. Donna Smith, a surgical first assistant who came to America from Canada to work in a free-market healthcare system, use to babysit us.
I'm Hanging Up The White Coat Because Of Obamacare To Pursue My Doctorate In Economics And Head To Wall Street
I’m Hanging Up The White Coat Because Of Obamacare To Pursue My Doctorate In Economics And Head To Wall Street/ Continue My Work In Politics
Donna’s two-story town-home became a 3rd home (2nd was the hospital). We spent countless nights at her house.
Patty passed away when I was ten. I still remember the last box of moon pies she gave me for Halloween that year. To this day every time I see a moon pie I think of her. Donna helped me through my undergrad at Belmont University. With tuition at $30k/year money was tight. Donna never let me go without a meal.
You see Mr. President, the smell of sterile operating rooms, horrible coffee, crisp white coats, and cold metal was my destiny. The first time someone ever asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up I responded, “Anesthesiologist”. I had no idea what they even did, but it was the first big word I learned to pronounce as a 6-year-old. The hospital is my family. It’s all I’ve ever known.
Twenty-one years after my birth, in the same hospital, I listened to a fetal heart beat through my very own stethoscope. You know, it’s quite magical. As the cool, metallic bell lies upon the tight skin of a young mother’s stomach anxiety, fear and joy are all present in her face. A week before my birthday I stood at the side of the laboring mother. There’s no other way to explain childbirth than witnessing the face of God. The emotion is enveloping. You can only try (unsuccessfully) to hold the tears back. I knew at that moment what a gift God had given me. To be allowed the involvement of such a beautiful, pure moment was not to be unappreciated.
When I started college I knew where I was going. You had just won the election. I remember the cameras focusing in on Oprah Winfrey’s face. Tears streamed down. At the time, I knew nothing about politics. My biggest concern was a girl in my Anatomy & Physiology class I had a crush on. I paid little attention to Washington DC.
I worked hard. Multiple all-nighters, falling asleep behind the wheel of my car countless times, thousands of shots of espresso (I actually took a job at Starbucks to support the habit) and 15k note-cards later I had graduated in the top 5% of the country. However, during those last few years something changed.
We studied medical legislation for an entire semester. It’s no secret that the federal government has over-burdened the healthcare market, which has manifested astronomical costs to consumers. However, in 2010, democrats forced through the partisan Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), which was later funded by both democrats and republicans.
Since the passage of Obamacare everything has changed. When I started college I never intended to work for the government. I never thought I’d have a government bureaucrat dictate what I was worth to the market, and I certainly never imagined those same bureaucrats (who have absolutely no medical training) telling me how to treat my patients.
I remember the day Obamacare became law. I was sitting in the hospital working in the anesthesia department part-time to cover the costs of tuition. Dr. Alfery, a mentor of mine, looked over at me and said, “Run– It’s not too late to change majors.”
Your legislation has caused countless doctors to go into retirement early, opt for cash-only practices, and has discouraged bright, young minds from entering the field.
With student loans reaching $300k, incalculable opportunity costs and 8 years lost to school, students seeking medical degrees give their lives to the practice. Starting our careers at 30 while dictating to us how much money we can make is nothing short of destroying all incentive to enter the field.
Since that day I’ve yet to find a doctor who recommends the field. People respond to my complaints, “It’s still going to be a good job”. I don’t want a “good job”. I have not fought for a government entitlement of a “good job”. I want an incredible career. That’s what I have fought tirelessly for.
I have been on a path to enter the Air Force and continue my education in medicine. I have been dreaming of specializing in pediatric neurosurgery for half a decade.
After quite literally losing my hair from the internal conflict, considering the sunk costs and evaluating different avenues I have decided.
I have decided that I believe in the principles of a truly free-market, and I trust the free-market. Because of this deep, internal value system I cannot, with clear conscience, continue on this path. My life has value. Such value cannot be calculated by Washington bureaucrats. I won’t allow it. Only a true free-market can accurately assess the value I am capable of.
Mr President, I’m leaving the medical field. I’m hanging up the white coat. However, let me be clear. You have not won. Unless something “changes”, you’ve lost and will continue to lose. You will fail because you lack principle. Meanwhile, we will succeed because we are born of principle.
Regards,
Michael Gordon Lotfi
I was born at Centennial Medical Center in Nashville, Tennessee. My mother would later take a job delivering babies in that same operating room only a couple years later. My parents got a divorce when I was young. There were many times during the summer when she would be forced to take my sister and I to work with her. I vividly remember the child version of myself walking the halls of the same floor I was born on in fascination as the years passed. The anesthesiologists use to bring us candy and watch movies with us. When the holidays came, a nurse by the name of Patty Vaughn (we called her Granny), would have bags of presents for my sister and I. Donna Smith, a surgical first assistant who came to America from Canada to work in a free-market healthcare system, use to babysit us.
I'm Hanging Up The White Coat Because Of Obamacare To Pursue My Doctorate In Economics And Head To Wall Street
I’m Hanging Up The White Coat Because Of Obamacare To Pursue My Doctorate In Economics And Head To Wall Street/ Continue My Work In Politics
Donna’s two-story town-home became a 3rd home (2nd was the hospital). We spent countless nights at her house.
Patty passed away when I was ten. I still remember the last box of moon pies she gave me for Halloween that year. To this day every time I see a moon pie I think of her. Donna helped me through my undergrad at Belmont University. With tuition at $30k/year money was tight. Donna never let me go without a meal.
You see Mr. President, the smell of sterile operating rooms, horrible coffee, crisp white coats, and cold metal was my destiny. The first time someone ever asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up I responded, “Anesthesiologist”. I had no idea what they even did, but it was the first big word I learned to pronounce as a 6-year-old. The hospital is my family. It’s all I’ve ever known.
Twenty-one years after my birth, in the same hospital, I listened to a fetal heart beat through my very own stethoscope. You know, it’s quite magical. As the cool, metallic bell lies upon the tight skin of a young mother’s stomach anxiety, fear and joy are all present in her face. A week before my birthday I stood at the side of the laboring mother. There’s no other way to explain childbirth than witnessing the face of God. The emotion is enveloping. You can only try (unsuccessfully) to hold the tears back. I knew at that moment what a gift God had given me. To be allowed the involvement of such a beautiful, pure moment was not to be unappreciated.
When I started college I knew where I was going. You had just won the election. I remember the cameras focusing in on Oprah Winfrey’s face. Tears streamed down. At the time, I knew nothing about politics. My biggest concern was a girl in my Anatomy & Physiology class I had a crush on. I paid little attention to Washington DC.
I worked hard. Multiple all-nighters, falling asleep behind the wheel of my car countless times, thousands of shots of espresso (I actually took a job at Starbucks to support the habit) and 15k note-cards later I had graduated in the top 5% of the country. However, during those last few years something changed.
We studied medical legislation for an entire semester. It’s no secret that the federal government has over-burdened the healthcare market, which has manifested astronomical costs to consumers. However, in 2010, democrats forced through the partisan Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), which was later funded by both democrats and republicans.
Since the passage of Obamacare everything has changed. When I started college I never intended to work for the government. I never thought I’d have a government bureaucrat dictate what I was worth to the market, and I certainly never imagined those same bureaucrats (who have absolutely no medical training) telling me how to treat my patients.
I remember the day Obamacare became law. I was sitting in the hospital working in the anesthesia department part-time to cover the costs of tuition. Dr. Alfery, a mentor of mine, looked over at me and said, “Run– It’s not too late to change majors.”
Your legislation has caused countless doctors to go into retirement early, opt for cash-only practices, and has discouraged bright, young minds from entering the field.
With student loans reaching $300k, incalculable opportunity costs and 8 years lost to school, students seeking medical degrees give their lives to the practice. Starting our careers at 30 while dictating to us how much money we can make is nothing short of destroying all incentive to enter the field.
Since that day I’ve yet to find a doctor who recommends the field. People respond to my complaints, “It’s still going to be a good job”. I don’t want a “good job”. I have not fought for a government entitlement of a “good job”. I want an incredible career. That’s what I have fought tirelessly for.
I have been on a path to enter the Air Force and continue my education in medicine. I have been dreaming of specializing in pediatric neurosurgery for half a decade.
After quite literally losing my hair from the internal conflict, considering the sunk costs and evaluating different avenues I have decided.
I have decided that I believe in the principles of a truly free-market, and I trust the free-market. Because of this deep, internal value system I cannot, with clear conscience, continue on this path. My life has value. Such value cannot be calculated by Washington bureaucrats. I won’t allow it. Only a true free-market can accurately assess the value I am capable of.
Mr President, I’m leaving the medical field. I’m hanging up the white coat. However, let me be clear. You have not won. Unless something “changes”, you’ve lost and will continue to lose. You will fail because you lack principle. Meanwhile, we will succeed because we are born of principle.
Regards,
Michael Gordon Lotfi
Awesome letter.
Teachers go into the field to teach knowing it's pretty much a no-win situation and not very much awesome pay.
Doctors go into the field wanting to help people while making 6 figures, that's not going to change.
If he wants to go to wall street, good for him.
Obama didn't create the Wall Street monster. For years Wall Street has picked off some of the brightest minds from the highest institutions to get them to make money on the stock market instead of being productive in other sectors of the economy we could use them most. This guy is not a pioneer by any stretch of the imagination and this has been happening long ago.
This guy trusts the free market, that forces students to have $300k in student debt, that makes health insurance so expensive that the average person cannot afford it and a system where the insurance company rips off the customer. So instead he's going to bring his brilliance to wall street to screw over the average person even more.
It's ironic that the beginning of the story the guy does nothing but chalk up nostalgia to people that took care of him growing up.
That guy is an attention whore. If his motive was to help the sick, he'd still be a doctor for all the right reasons. It's not like doctors are going to be making less than a McDonald's manager or a police man. Doctors will still be pretty wealthy after this.
Teachers have more regulations and restrictions placed on them since they're actual government employees, but if you ask almost every single one of them why they do it, they'll tell you because they want to make a difference in kids' lives.
Teachers go into the field to teach knowing it's pretty much a no-win situation and not very much awesome pay.
Doctors go into the field wanting to help people while making 6 figures, that's not going to change.
If he wants to go to wall street, good for him.
Obama didn't create the Wall Street monster. For years Wall Street has picked off some of the brightest minds from the highest institutions to get them to make money on the stock market instead of being productive in other sectors of the economy we could use them most. This guy is not a pioneer by any stretch of the imagination and this has been happening long ago.
This guy trusts the free market, that forces students to have $300k in student debt, that makes health insurance so expensive that the average person cannot afford it and a system where the insurance company rips off the customer. So instead he's going to bring his brilliance to wall street to screw over the average person even more.
It's ironic that the beginning of the story the guy does nothing but chalk up nostalgia to people that took care of him growing up.
That guy is an attention whore. If his motive was to help the sick, he'd still be a doctor for all the right reasons. It's not like doctors are going to be making less than a McDonald's manager or a police man. Doctors will still be pretty wealthy after this.
Teachers have more regulations and restrictions placed on them since they're actual government employees, but if you ask almost every single one of them why they do it, they'll tell you because they want to make a difference in kids' lives.
All this doom and gloom that because of Obamacare, kids won't go into the medical field anymore is just silly. Doctor's will still have wealthy incomes after Obamacare. There will be more physicians assistants. The market will correct itself and adapt to whatever changes happen.
I'm still laughing at that letter. It's supposed to tell a story of a young boy whose dream it was, was to help people, because he was "born" to do it. Talks all about how much he was in love with becoming a doctor and being a caretaker like Patty. One law all of the sudden changes his passion and makes him go on a career change despite the fact it will still be a wealthy profession. This isn't going to prevent doctors from being able to afford a 200k house or a nice Mercedes or Jaguar. He tries to write his letter so poetic and eloquently, when really he's just showing you just has narcissistic he is. He's quitting his passion for helping all in the name of the "free market" he believes in, that at the end of the day is screwing the same people he claims to want to be helping. Good stuff Michael Gordon Lofti. You're just as much of a narcissist as Ted Cruz.
I'm still laughing at that letter. It's supposed to tell a story of a young boy whose dream it was, was to help people, because he was "born" to do it. Talks all about how much he was in love with becoming a doctor and being a caretaker like Patty. One law all of the sudden changes his passion and makes him go on a career change despite the fact it will still be a wealthy profession. This isn't going to prevent doctors from being able to afford a 200k house or a nice Mercedes or Jaguar. He tries to write his letter so poetic and eloquently, when really he's just showing you just has narcissistic he is. He's quitting his passion for helping all in the name of the "free market" he believes in, that at the end of the day is screwing the same people he claims to want to be helping. Good stuff Michael Gordon Lofti. You're just as much of a narcissist as Ted Cruz.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
Oh don't give me the you guys are smart reasonable guys rhetoric. It implies that our argument on this is absurd, which of course it isn't. How in the world could the pubs possibly negotiate without something to give? The government shutdown I agree was a dumb move just because it actually helped the dems and there was no possible win for the pubs, but the debt ceiling was the only leverage the pubs had. The fake outrage over the pubs using it as leverage is what was absurd.
We kept hearing over and over again about how every point of negotiation was a nonstarter. I know that you are a smart reasonable guy, but the dems made a big mistake by not meeting the pubs in the middle on this. A simple and extremely fair delay of the mandate with a firm starting date would have actually helped the President. Now all of a sudden the pubs are looking like the reasonable party in all of this.