Around Baseball Offseason Edition - Derek Jeter will retire at seasons end

thethe said:
For the last three yeras Kinsler has been an awful hitter away from Texas. I can only imagine how awful he will be hitting in Detroit half the time. I understand why both teams made the deal. It makes sense but I just think that the Rangers got the better end of it.

Also, your first baseman above all had various injuries. If Fielder starts to get hurt then I agree but I can't predict an injury to a guy who has always been healthy.
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How many times must we tell you that road splits don't matter. Stop living in 1999.

Forstarters let's look at the park factors. Texas has a multi year of 104 and 103. Detroit has a multi-year of 106 and 105. Meaning Detroit is more of a hitters park than Texas. People often confuse homer parks with hitter parks. And Arlington I believe switched to humidor balls which removed that homer factor IIRC. Even if it didn't the onfield results show that Comerica is more hitter friendly.

Kinsler last year hit 12 homers out of the park. 11 of those should have been out of Comerica for sure according to hit Tracker online. Fielder had 25 homers and 2 of them at least are at risk of not leaving Arlington.

Then you have to remember that homers are Fielders game, they're not Kinslers. He's a doubles guy, which Comerica is more doubles friendly than homer friendly.
 
zitothebrave said:
Here are the 2 articles Cameron at Fangraphs wrote, first from the Tigers perspective, second from the Rnagers

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/tigers-exchange-albatross-for-good-player-get-even-better/

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/rangers-move-pieces-around-outcome-to-be-determined/

Honestly I think both teams are better in the immediate future for making this trade.

As the Cameron article states. The tigers will use this money to get a guy, hopefully they're not dumb enough to pay it to Scherzer. If they bring in Choo, or anyone else who's an improvement they're set.

Rangers add a bat that they need but more importantly free up a spot for Profar. If Profar gets to his potential that alone will make the deal be fine for Texas on the production side.

That said, FIelder is fat, and Texas got him for a similar value player and 30M in cash. Brilliant trade for Detroit. They save a ton of money and get better.

Miggy should be better at a better defensive position and a position that doesn't wear on his body as much. They can play Castellanos at 3B. They found someone to replace Omar, now they have the cash to go out and get someone as well. Great trade for the Tigers.
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These are the most important points when calling it a "win-win" for both teams IMO. Both teams were able to deal from a position of strength while being able to fill a position of need without significantly weakening themselves AS WELL AS opening an opportunity for players blocked on both sides. Texas got the LH power bat they've been searching for since they let Hamilton walk, and the one they got is significantly better than the other options available on the free-agent market. Detroit got significantly better defensively with the move of Cabrera to 1B and Castellanos to 3B, and the 2B they got is significantly better than the other options available on the free-agent market (outside of Cano of course).

The moves provided much more flexibility for both teams - financially for Detroit, and in the additional moves Texas can make now that they have that middle of the order bat need resolved - without costing either team young talent. As I alluded to last night, I fully expect Detroit to now go get Nathan and Choo and Texas to go get Mac and Beltran or Ellsbury (or they can even re-sign Cruz now that they're not so right handed anymore).

Just one of the really good "baseball trades" that we seldom see these days IMO.
 
Tapate50 said:
This proves to me that pretty much any contract is moveable. I mean Vernon Wells got moved as well.
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I still wonder if Baltimore might not be a fit for Uggla if Wren's willing to eat enough money. Cincy's going to want pitching in return for Phillips, and Duquette's been pretty clear in explaining that he's not moving Pitchers. They need what money they have available to add a rotation piece, and being able to plug Uggla in at 2B for maybe $4 million per rather than gamble on Brian Roberts ever being healthy again might not be such a bad idea.
 
clvclv said:
I still wonder if Baltimore might not be a fit for Uggla if Wren's willing to eat enough money. Cincy's going to want pitching in return for Phillips, and Duquette's been pretty clear in explaining that he's not moving Pitchers. They need what money they have available to add a rotation piece, and being able to plug Uggla in at 2B for maybe $4 million per rather than gamble on Brian Roberts ever being healthy again might not be such a bad idea.
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I'd hope we could eat less than that. Uggla still has value. He's not a total turd.
 
zitothebrave said:
I'd hope we could eat less than that. Uggla still has value. He's not a total turd.
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I don't think anyone will know that until he faces live pitching. For the record (for the umpteenth time and I think everyone here knows what I'm going to write), I've never--ever--liked Uggla as a player and while I abided the original deal to acquire him, I thought the extension that was pretty much a bad deal. But what's done is done and we're stuck in what could be another Esasky situation.

I think the Kinsler/Fielder deal tilts ever so slightly toward the Tigers. It's really a boon to Profar and Castellanos, who will know get every chance to be everyday players. Tigers get some flexibility to beef up their bullpen and/or acquire another piece of their line-up. Fielder should do well in Arlington and the Rangers have shown themselves to be able to absorb some pretty bad contracts. Can't believe they are going to pay Andrus what they will be paying him for the next decade.
 
Unless Uggla gets worse than he did last year which I don't consider the most likely choice. I think he hits a little bit better so he'll be better, probably along the lines of about where he was in 2012. So maybe like a 2 WAR player.

Not great of course, but I'd like to think someone would pay at least 6M a year for him.
 
I live here in DFW and there's still a lot of talk about adding Robinson Cano as well. Profar might be still be available.
 
3Deans said:
I live here in DFW and there's still a lot of talk about adding Robinson Cano as well. Profar might be still be available.
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What is the feeling about McCann. Cano and McCann seems a bit rich for a team in the Rangers financial situation.
 
What this trade shows us is that it's typically easier to trade bad contact for bad contract than it is to just dump off a contract, even after eating a large chunk of it. So when I think about how we could possibly get rid of Uggla, I try to think of teams with players that have bad contracts in an area of need for us. The only possible area of need for us that I can see (other than 2nd, lol) is a veteran starting pitcher. Definitely wouldn't be the ace we all want, but it's the most plausible way to dump Uggs that I can think of.
 
zitothebrave said:
Unless Uggla gets worse than he did last year which I don't consider the most likely choice. I think he hits a little bit better so he'll be better, probably along the lines of about where he was in 2012. So maybe like a 2 WAR player.

Not great of course, but I'd like to think someone would pay at least 6M a year for him.
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zito, the point I was trying to make is that I doubt anyone will consider acquiring Uggla until they see him against live pitching. He was so bad post-LASIK that other teams are going to want to see if that was a total aberration or if that's who he is right now. I agree that he probably can't be that bad, but there may be deeper issues here (which is why I brought up Esasky).
 
wheresmykayak said:
What this trade shows us is that it's typically easier to trade bad contact for bad contract than it is to just dump off a contract, even after eating a large chunk of it. So when I think about how we could possibly get rid of Uggla, I try to think of teams with players that have bad contracts in an area of need for us. The only possible area of need for us that I can see (other than 2nd, lol) is a veteran starting pitcher. Definitely wouldn't be the ace we all want, but it's the most plausible way to dump Uggs that I can think of.
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Uggla for Markakis fits your scenario to some extent.
 
50PoundHead said:
zito, the point I was trying to make is that I doubt anyone will consider acquiring Uggla until they see him against live pitching. He was so bad post-LASIK that other teams are going to want to see if that was a total aberration or if that's who he is right now. I agree that he probably can't be that bad, but there may be deeper issues here (which is why I brought up Esasky).
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If the Lasik surgery totally screwed Uggla's eyes, would insurance be a viable route out this disaster or are the Braves one of the self insurers? Anyone know.
 
zitothebrave said:
I would trade Uggla for Markakis, but I don't think the O's would.
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A lot of other things would have to happen first. Consider that Os have no current 2nd baseman. Consider that Os have no real need of Markakis if they bring McLouth back. Consider that Markakis has what is a bad contract in some circles (17M obligation for 2014 then Fa)

Next question begs What would Atlanta do with Markakis other than a 17M bench player.
 
The fact that we have posters saying both of these teams won the trade tells me it was a very even trade.

And I agree.

I think this was the perfect fit for both teams. Both teams may end up paying for a declining talent, but they have that talent in place at a current position of need. Both teams freed up a position for a young cheap player to take over. Both teams made the swap without altering their fincancial plans very much, either now or in the future.

This is a classic win/win trade.
 
zitothebrave said:
Unless Uggla gets worse than he did last year which I don't consider the most likely choice. I think he hits a little bit better so he'll be better, probably along the lines of about where he was in 2012. So maybe like a 2 WAR player.

Not great of course, but I'd like to think someone would pay at least 6M a year for him.
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Someone already pays him well above 6 million for his performance...
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
A lot of other things would have to happen first. Consider that Os have no current 2nd baseman. Consider that Os have no real need of Markakis if they bring McLouth back. Consider that Markakis has what is a bad contract in some circles (17M obligation for 2014 then Fa)

Next question begs What would Atlanta do with Markakis other than a 17M bench player.
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Put him in left field, so we can have a different terrible contract on the bench.
 
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