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If every argument is they know better then what is the point of a message board?

I think Wright and Newk are being punished to try and get them to make required changes.

My point is we have Davidson, Weigel, De la Cruz etc who have the chance to be good. Erlin is terrible. And I hope if I talk enough **** about him, then we will do amazing on Wed. I'd much rather be wrong and have the Braves do well.
 
Russ2dollas said:
If every argument is they know better then what is the point of a message board?

I think Wright and Newk are being punished to try and get them to make required changes.

My point is we have Davidson, Weigel, De la Cruz etc who have the chance to be good. Erlin is terrible. And I hope if I talk enough **** about him, then we will do amazing on Wed. I'd much rather be wrong and have the Braves do well.
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Agreed. We have a staple of young guys with potential who could come up and be just as bad as Erlin with the hopes of being better. If they are working on Folty’s strength. Or wrights mechanics. Or newks head then fine. Let them stay down until finished. But why not yona. Cruz. Weigel. Davidson. My dead grandma. Anyone but these retreads wanna he’s.
 
Russ2dollas said:
If every argument is they know better then what is the point of a message board?

I think Wright and Newk are being punished to try and get them to make required changes.

My point is we have Davidson, Weigel, De la Cruz etc who have the chance to be good. Erlin is terrible. And I hope if I talk enough **** about him, then we will do amazing on Wed. I'd much rather be wrong and have the Braves do well.
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Isn't sucking punishment enough? I know if my ERA was 7.00 I'd be listening.
 
Dalyn said:
I'm guessing, if this is true, that he suffers from anorexia or bulimia.
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No judgement here...maybe he has some legit mental health issue that requires medication, which seems plausible given his trouble containing emotions and remaining focused. And those things can have an impact on your weight. Something like adderall for ADHD.
 
DirkPiggler said:
Rule of thumb for sports (or pretty much any competitive enterprise): when you have two guys who suck, and one has upside and the other doesn't, you always go with the guy who has the chance to get better.

Unless of course the zero upside guy has a hot wife he's willing to share with you, is slipping you money under the table, or can blackmail you in some way.
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Solid analysis
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Isn't sucking punishment enough? I know if my ERA was 7.00 I'd be listening.
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I hope all they are telling Wright Newk and touki is learn to throw a fastball where you want it. Seems they are always working on secondary pitches but not just getting guys to be able to throw a fastball in all four quadrants when they want to.
I remember Madrid told someone why he was so good was he knew exactly where his fastball was going.
 
Another way I’d say it is this....

We are 90 plus percent to make the playoffs. Erlin starting a playoff game is crazy. Spend September finding the guy to start game 3. Even if it’s only one time through the order
 
I don't think anyone here is promoting Robbie Erlin as the part of any solution other than to go out a couple times a week and try to make it through the line-up once (or maybe one-and-a-half) times, but anyone who has ever played baseball (and I did not play it very well at all) can attest to how frustrating it is to play behind a pitcher who can't (or won't) throw strikes and how that really can be a drag on the team. Kyle Wright simply wasn't throwing strikes. Neither was Toussaint. Granted those guys have much higher upsides than Erlin, but at least Erlin doesn't f*ck around out there. The young guys simply haven't stepped up and in a truncated season, the Braves have had to move to Plan B (and Plan C and Plan D ad infinitum).

A lot of things have gone wrong with the plans for the rotation. Soroka injured. Foltynewicz implodes (surprising only to the extent). Hamels not recovering. No young guy stepping up. That has sent the Braves scouring to fill things out.
 
Russ2dollas said:
Another way I’d say it is this....

We are 90 plus percent to make the playoffs. Erlin starting a playoff game is crazy. Spend September finding the guy to start game 3. Even if it’s only one time through the order
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Has to be Hamels.
 
thethe said:
Has to be Hamels.
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I don't think so. I think Wright could be that guy. Davidson and Weigel could be that guy based on everything I've read pre this year. I am certainly suspicious that they are hurt or terrible given Erlin is on the team and they were on the 40 man when that decision was made.

I do remember Glavine and Smoltz getting their brains beaten in. I do think Wright has been handled poorly. IMO he should ahve been up last year and all year allowed to start as the fifth starter. Let him work through his ****. I don't think it's different from Riley getting to work through his stuff.

Ynoa pitched last night when he did not have to. Pitched in the role he is probably destined to be useful, low leverage relief. I hope that means "his spot" in the rotation is going to be someone in Gwinnett.

I will be pissed off when Wright comes up and implodes the second time through the order. I will. But I'm a fan. I think as a leader AA has to think about how to win the first playoff series in 20 years. IIRC the first series is going to be a best of 3. Fried or Anderson could have a hiccup. You could run into a stud pitcher and lose 1-0. We could be facing Bower and the Reds. You need a 3rd game strategy that is not Erlin or Tomlin. IF your strategy is pure bullpen game, then do that now too. See if Minter can be a Rays style opener and still be on his game. Spend September preparing for October.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I don't think so. I think Wright could be that guy. Davidson and Weigel could be that guy based on everything I've read pre this year. I am certainly suspicious that they are hurt or terrible given Erlin is on the team and they were on the 40 man when that decision was made.

I do remember Glavine and Smoltz getting their brains beaten in. I do think Wright has been handled poorly. IMO he should ahve been up last year and all year allowed to start as the fifth starter. Let him work through his ****. I don't think it's different from Riley getting to work through his stuff.

Ynoa pitched last night when he did not have to. Pitched in the role he is probably destined to be useful, low leverage relief. I hope that means "his spot" in the rotation is going to be someone in Gwinnett.

I will be pissed off when Wright comes up and implodes the second time through the order. I will. But I'm a fan. I think as a leader AA has to think about how to win the first playoff series in 20 years. IIRC the first series is going to be a best of 3. Fried or Anderson could have a hiccup. You could run into a stud pitcher and lose 1-0. We could be facing Bower and the Reds. You need a 3rd game strategy that is not Erlin or Tomlin. IF your strategy is pure bullpen game, then do that now too. See if Minter can be a Rays style opener and still be on his game. Spend September preparing for October.
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I'm all on board with leaving Wright alone. He isnt learning anything pitching at a lower level.

Are you of the position that hamels won't pitch this year?
 
With the trade deadline gone, here are the options to follow Fried and Anderson:

Hamels is 36. In 421 career starts he has walked 2.6 per 9 IP.
Tomlin is 35. He’s gotten 148 starts with a career 4.68 ERA. He walks 1.3 per 9 IP.
Milone is 33. He is with his 11th team in 10 seasons but has 143 starts to his credit and a career 4.51 ERA in over 900 IP. He walks 2.1 per 9 IP over his career.
Erlin is 29. In 8 seasons he has amassed 41 starts and 72 relief appearances. He walks 1.8 per 9 IP over his career.
Foltynewicz will turn 29 next month. Over 7 season he walks 3.1 per 9 IP. He had one magical season where he k’d more than 9 per 9 IP, but overall, he hasn’t been anything more than a 5th starter.
Newcomb is 27. Over the last 4 years he has received 57 starts and an additional 52 relief appearances in Atlanta. He has walked 4.5 per 9IP in his career. That said, he has been generally serviceable until this truncated season.
Wright is 24. Over 3 seasons he has gotten 8 starts and an additional 7 relief appearances. He has a grand total of 40.2 IP in Atlanta and has walked 35 (7.9 per 9 IP).
Toussaint is 24. Over three seasons he has received 10 starts and 27 relief appearances. He has walked 60 in 92.1 IP (5.9 per 9 IP).
Wilson is 22. Over 3 seasons he has walked 20 in 28.2 IP (6.2 per 9 IP).
Ynoa is 22. He has a total of 12.1 IP over the past two seasons and walked 8 (6.0 per 9 IP).

The clear hope is for Tomlin, MIlone and Erlin to just give a 5th starter effort (ERA around 5 and take 4+ innings every start) to protect the bullpen for the playoffs and slide Hamels in at the very end where if he is used up in less than 5 starts at least they were the 5 starts we wanted him here for when he was signed.

It would be great for Folty or Newcomb to rebound and rebuild value, but (1) this is pretty much the end of the line for them as Braves due to salary constraints I’d think and (2) can the Barves really take a chance on a 2 IP implosion that taxes the pen when the pen is needed for 4+ innings 60% of the time?

If Wright, Toussaint, Wilson and Ynoa want a future in Atlanta, they must learn how to throw strikes. It would seem to be an easy conversation at this point. “Look at Tomlin, MIlone and Erlin. They’ve got your spots. They don’t have your stuff. What they do have is a MLB career because they can throw strikes.” I don’t know who can help with that, but if I was the organization, I’d be willing to spend a tremendous amount on anyone that could help those 4 learn to throw strikes. If two of them become dependable options in the rotation, or pen, moving forward the investment was well worth it.
 
OcalaBrave said:
With the trade deadline gone, here are the options to follow Fried and Anderson:

Hamels is 36. In 421 career starts he has walked 2.6 per 9 IP.
Tomlin is 35. He’s gotten 148 starts with a career 4.68 ERA. He walks 1.3 per 9 IP.
Milone is 33. He is with his 11th team in 10 seasons but has 143 starts to his credit and a career 4.51 ERA in over 900 IP. He walks 2.1 per 9 IP over his career.
Erlin is 29. In 8 seasons he has amassed 41 starts and 72 relief appearances. He walks 1.8 per 9 IP over his career.
Foltynewicz will turn 29 next month. Over 7 season he walks 3.1 per 9 IP. He had one magical season where he k’d more than 9 per 9 IP, but overall, he hasn’t been anything more than a 5th starter.
Newcomb is 27. Over the last 4 years he has received 57 starts and an additional 52 relief appearances in Atlanta. He has walked 4.5 per 9IP in his career. That said, he has been generally serviceable until this truncated season.
Wright is 24. Over 3 seasons he has gotten 8 starts and an additional 7 relief appearances. He has a grand total of 40.2 IP in Atlanta and has walked 35 (7.9 per 9 IP).
Toussaint is 24. Over three seasons he has received 10 starts and 27 relief appearances. He has walked 60 in 92.1 IP (5.9 per 9 IP).
Wilson is 22. Over 3 seasons he has walked 20 in 28.2 IP (6.2 per 9 IP).
Ynoa is 22. He has a total of 12.1 IP over the past two seasons and walked 8 (6.0 per 9 IP).

The clear hope is for Tomlin, MIlone and Erlin to just give a 5th starter effort (ERA around 5 and take 4+ innings every start) to protect the bullpen for the playoffs and slide Hamels in at the very end where if he is used up in less than 5 starts at least they were the 5 starts we wanted him here for when he was signed.

It would be great for Folty or Newcomb to rebound and rebuild value, but (1) this is pretty much the end of the line for them as Braves due to salary constraints I’d think and (2) can the Barves really take a chance on a 2 IP implosion that taxes the pen when the pen is needed for 4+ innings 60% of the time?

If Wright, Toussaint, Wilson and Ynoa want a future in Atlanta, they must learn how to throw strikes. It would seem to be an easy conversation at this point. “Look at Tomlin, MIlone and Erlin. They’ve got your spots. They don’t have your stuff. What they do have is a MLB career because they can throw strikes.” I don’t know who can help with that, but if I was the organization, I’d be willing to spend a tremendous amount on anyone that could help those 4 learn to throw strikes. If two of them become dependable options in the rotation, or pen, moving forward the investment was well worth it.
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Thinking about the playoff matchups, pencil in Anderson for game 2.

You've got to figure out a way to get through two more games with what's left. Thus far, it seems like you have a handful of guys who are good through one turn through the rotation, so I guess you should be trying to figure out which of these guys pair up best and complement each other.

Whether that's left then right. Or soft toss vs hard toss. Figure it out.

I would say that it is a bad sign that the guys in camp (Davidson, Weigel, De La Cruz, Muller, Wilson) haven't really been given a chance, but let's keep in mind the Braves were extremely reluctant to give Anderson a shot as well and that has gone about as well as could be expected.

I don't quite understand their thought process about who to deploy, who not to deploy and how angry to get at them or not angry.
 
we do not need 5 starters. We will make the playoffs.

We NEED 3, Ideally 4 different plans/starters.

My basic idea is focus on what do we do game 3. IF we get outside of the first round then we need a fourth starter plan. I would not bring Fried back on short rest. I don't want him hurt.
 
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