The only thing that is even open for debate regarding biology and nature is their hormones and genitalia. Everything else that people actually concern themselves with is societal. Biology doesn’t inform which bathrooms are used or who competes in which sporting events. We created all of those things, and assigned who does what or goes where based on societal norms. Saying a trans person shouldn’t be allowed to do something because of science is misleading.
TLHLIM
- Thread starter sturg33
- Start date
The only thing that is even open for debate regarding biology and nature is their hormones and genitalia. Everything else that people actually concern themselves with is societal. Biology doesn’t inform which bathrooms are used or who competes in which sporting events. We created all of those things, and assigned who does what or goes where based on societal norms. Saying a trans person shouldn’t be allowed to do something because of science is misleading.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I'll leave this article on Revolutionary War hero Casimir Pulaski here. I guess he/she didn't live a normal life.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...imir-pulaski-might-have-been-woman-or-n991371
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...imir-pulaski-might-have-been-woman-or-n991371
57Brave
Well-known member
with many years as a youth coach --- many many times have seen females that compete not only at the level of male but overachieve.
in my later playing years trans people began to play in coed sports. Ball is ball
unless one carries another agenda to the field
in my later playing years trans people began to play in coed sports. Ball is ball
unless one carries another agenda to the field
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goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
I’d tell that to the numerous examples of transgender athletes that did not win their competitions against people born as females. It’s obviously true that the best male athletes will have an advantage, but we’re talking about people undergoing hormone treatments and living life as young women. There will be some outliers where the competition is affected, but I take the stance that fostering an inclusive environment for young people is more important than who wins a children’s sporting event.
Where you continue to lose me in the argument of science and biology is how it’s applied. There’s a debate to be had about the science, and I’m not qualified enough to have a strong opinion on it. That debate ceases to be about science when it’s being applied to social situations, and instead becomes about what we are willing to accept. I’m not looking to change your mind on whether or not transgender kids should be able to use a certain bathroom or compete in sports, but rather dispel the idea that it’s science that determines it.
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striker42
Well-known member
A lot depends on age. At a young age you see a lot of girls outdo boys in sports. Once puberty hits, things change.
When I was in high school, our boys JV soccer team scrimmaged our girls, best in county varsity soccer team. The boys won 14-0. As a group, the boys were far bigger, stronger, and faster.
Sure Mia Hamm could have dribbled circles around anyone on that field, boy or girl, but it's not outliers. It's the groups as a whole.
I don't have a dog in the trans sports fight. But thinking that high school boys and girls would be even athletically just isn't realistic.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Biology is a science. Biology determines sex. Gender is a post modern attempt at defining stereotypes of the sexes, a worthless term essentially invented for the grievance industry by people who think the psych field is a science.
My stance is fairly simple. If a woman wants to wear men's jeans and a bowl cut while she chews tobacco and works on diesel engines then I applaud her. If a man wants to wear skinny jeans while he works some interior design at Starbucks then good for him. If a company has to lower their diesel mechanic standards for that woman or the design company has to alter their dress code for that guy to wear a dress, then I have a problem. If someone thinks this abnormal and unnatural behavior that results in an exponentially higher suicide rate needs to be taught and normalized in any public school then I have a problem. If anyone tries to teach this madness to my kids in school...well, we'll have an incident where other lessons will be taught.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
"Now let's take up the minorities in our civilization, shall we? Bigger the population, the more minorities...The bigger your market, Montag, the less you handle controversy, remember that! All the minor minor minorities with their navels to be kept clean. Authors, full of evil thoughts, lock up your typewriters. They did. Magazines became a nice blend of vanilla tapioca. Books, so the damned snobbish critics said, were dishwater. No wonder books stopped selling, the critics said. But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive. And the three dimensional sex magazines, of course. There you have it, Montag. It didn't come from the Government down. There was no dictum, no declaration, no censorship, to start with, no! Technology, mass exploitation, and minority pressure carried the trick, thank God."
-- Ray Bradbury, "Fahrenheit 451" (1951)
The Left brings us to dystopia in their enlightenment.
-- Ray Bradbury, "Fahrenheit 451" (1951)
The Left brings us to dystopia in their enlightenment.
This pretty directly sums up my concern. You said yourself that we constructed gender roles around stereotypical biological behaviors. However, what ‘gender’ means day-to-day has changed over the years as society has in general. Yet, the discussion started out as being about science and cold hard facts. What I’m suggesting is that societal norms got us to a point where women wear dresses and men wear “men’s” jeans, and they can move us away from it as well, even if you disagree with the biology of someone being transgender.
I respectfully disagree with you on whether or not it’s acceptable for someone to do certain things based on whether they were born with a penis or a vagina. I just continue to question how “the science” says I’m wrong, when it’s a matter of opinion whether or not someone should be allowed to do those things.