Bachmanmania!

zitothebrave said:
When I say abortion to be illegal I presumed that's what people would read, my bad.

ANyway, the 52% in the middle side more to the dems belief of legal with certain stipulations (such as no 3rd trimester, etc.)
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I think it is higher, like rape, incest, health to the mother. It depends on how they worded the question.
 
BedellBrave said:
Sick, wicked, and depraved. I am so growing in my hatred of this country.
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Curious as to why that would upset you. Neither are saying they want to be able to abort at 6 months it has more to do with laws like in Virginia where ultrasound is mandatory by the government.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Curious as to why that would upset you. Neither are saying they want to be able to abort at 6 months it has more to do with laws like in Virginia where ultrasound is mandatory by the government.
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My comment was in response to this (which I put in bold font):

And in unison they said "My uterus is mine, bitch!"

Such a mindset is hideously evil. Depraved. Wicked. And that it is so common is what I am lamenting.
 
BedellBrave said:
My comment was in response to this (which I put in bold font):

And in unison they said "My uterus is mine, bitch!"

Such a mindset is hideously evil. Depraved. Wicked. And that it is so common is what I am lamenting.
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And I would have said, "yeah, murder is permissible if it involves my body".

Got to love infanticide.
 
jpx7 said:
I hadn't seen that when I posted my question, but I guess (a) I'm not really sure that's the spirit of their "reveling" and (b) I don't find abortion nearly so abhorrent as you do.
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(a) Maybe not the spirit - but that's a part of the hideous problem - that they don't get the import of their words - that they act like there isn't an innocent human life involved in an abortion.

(b) I know and in respectful honesty, that troubles me about so many of you that I consider my friends. Despite all of our disagreements on this board, I like so many of you guys. This is one point that I wish we held more common ground. Sadly, we do not.

I speak for myself - and I do so recognizing my own sins - but abortion is a blight upon this country and that people don't merely say, "well it's not a good thing, but…", they go on to applaud it and revel in it, is barbaric to me.
 
BedellBrave said:
(a) Maybe not the spirit - but that's a part of the hideous problem - that they don't get the import of their words - that they act like there isn't an innocent human life involved in an abortion.

(b) I know and in respectful honesty, that troubles me about so many of you that I consider my friends. Despite all of our disagreements on this board, I like so many of you guys. This is one point that I wish we held more common ground. Sadly, we do not.

I speak for myself - and I do so recognizing my own sins - but abortion is a blight upon this country and that people don't merely say, "well it's not a good thing, but…", they go on to applaud it and revel in it, is barbaric to me.
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I have an interesting argument with my gf about it all the time. As I said, she is staunchly pro-choice, yet she recognizes the hypocrisy in being so.

Anyways, without going into it - I think I made some headway on her the other night. We were discussing abortion, and he mom was an OBGYN, and she is also considering being one. I asked her if her mom was pro-choice. She said that she was, but that she refused to perform an abortion. My gf said the exact same thing. I asked why, and she said "she didn't feel comfortable doing it."

Finally, it seemed like a light bulb went off. If you don't feel comfortable doing it, then it probably means that you think there is something "not right" about it. And it's not something as simple as killing a parasite. She agreed, and quickly changed the subject.
 
BedellBrave said:
(a) Maybe not the spirit - but that's a part of the hideous problem - that they don't get the import of their words - that they act like there isn't an innocent human life involved in an abortion.

(b) I know and in respectful honesty, that troubles me about so many of you that I consider my friends. Despite all of our disagreements on this board, I like so many of you guys. This is one point that I wish we held more common ground. Sadly, we do not.

I speak for myself - and I do so recognizing my own sins - but abortion is a blight upon this country and that people don't merely say, "well it's not a good thing, but…", they go on to applaud it and revel in it, is barbaric to me.
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I know people say they regret killing an unborn baby due to circumstances, like no birth control, having sex with many men (Maury, Springer types), but I honestly don't believe it. I know of several females growing up having multiple abortions and they were in their teens. Being promiscuous does not give you the right to kill babies because of an "oops". you made that decision to spread your snatch and you should keep the child as a reminder your own good feelings of ectasy comes at a price. I rather pay your fees for not killing the baby than rather see another soul killed without even having a chance, but the consequences of "oops" is your tubes getting tied until you deem fit to be a parent.
 
sturg33 said:
I have an interesting argument with my gf about it all the time. As I said, she is staunchly pro-choice, yet she recognizes the hypocrisy in being so.

Anyways, without going into it - I think I made some headway on her the other night. We were discussing abortion, and he mom was an OBGYN, and she is also considering being one. I asked her if her mom was pro-choice. She said that she was, but that she refused to perform an abortion. My gf said the exact same thing. I asked why, and she said "she didn't feel comfortable doing it."

Finally, it seemed like a light bulb went off. If you don't feel comfortable doing it, then it probably means that you think there is something "not right" about it. And it's not something as simple as killing a parasite. She agreed, and quickly changed the subject.
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Good words sturg - I wish you well!
 
KeithLockhart said:
Exactly. Curious as to why that upsets you
That's exactly what my response was.
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I'll give Bedell a break before he has an aneurism, here's the thing at least from my perspective, such as it is. As far as the statement, "my uterus is mine, bitch" goes, I couldn't agree more, a woman should have the right to say what does and does not go on in her body, but is that right, or any other right absolute? Will my 1st amendment right to free speech keep me from getting my ass kicked if I tell a Hell's Angel member he's ugly, stupid, AND he stinks?? Of course not, that freedom is conditional on other things like behavior. A woman has and should have every right in the world to decide what goes on in her body, but when she has sex without using one of the 913 different kinds of birth control available to women is she not both exercising her rights to determine what goes on in her body AND taking her rights to a place where she's not the only one involved anymore? I know you guys won't understand me on this any more than I can understand your "anything goes" attitude on this, but when she gets pregnant it isn't just her body anymore.

Now you can change the phrase "unborn infant" to fetus, parasite, loogie, inconvenient little bastard, or pretty much anything you choose to ease your consciences (if indeed anyone has those anymore) but it's still a child and all the "more illuminated and enlightened patrons of Master Science H. Logic" out there who have convinced themselves that it isn't a baby until it's born, or until it graduates from high school, or whatever criteria YOU set for it, can look down their "smarter than you" nose at people like me if they want, but the bottom line that you just can't get away from is that it is a freaking human being baby and snuffing it out just because you "aren't ready to be a parent" is murder, nothing less.

You guys can believe this or not, and since I'm not 100% in your camp on this I'm sure you won't, but IF it really were just the woman's uterus and there wasn't anyone (any other human) else involved except her and her right to her own reproductive rights I really would be right there with you, standing up for anyone trying to tell her what to do with her body, but once she chooses to act on those rights and have sex sans birth control she may get by with it or she may not, but once she gets pregnant it isn't just her anymore. It's like a woman claiming she has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and jumping out of an airplane to prove that nobody can tell her what to do, then half way down she realizes her chute was improperly packed and she says she still has the right to life...... but she's still going to splat, unless she's over water in which case she's going to do a combination of splat/splash. I still wish her well and hope she survives but all the legislation and Supreme Court decisions in the world can't put her back up in that plane again.

Now for those who bring up rape, incest, life of the mother in danger, etc., those don't make me feel any better about abortions but I DO recognize those aren't the same exact situation as "oops, I forgot to make him use a condom" or whatever. I will happily sign off on allowing the abortions from the group I just mentioned if you guys will sign off on stopping all the "oops" cases. Deal??? Of course not, because you guys want a world full of rights, but totally devoid of consequences.

Speaking only for myself, my only concern in this matter is the life of the CHILD, you can call it by whatever name makes you feel better, but it's still a CHILD, if you could take the unborn child from the mother's womb during an abortion and place it into some sort of high-tech incubator then I would be 1000% totally fine with abortion. I have ZERO interest in trying to force a woman to not have her rights to her own body, but for the 87 bazillionth time, once she's pregnant it isn't just her body anymore.

And you guys know that "well you Republicans are only interested in those babies until they're born then you don't give a sh!t" line won't work on me because I'm likely even less popular in their club on any given day than I am in yours when I make statements like this.

OK, enjoy and have a nice evening, but when you're out there practicing those absolute freedoms don't forget to NOT yell fire in a crowded theater because for some reason the Supreme Court DID decide exercising those rights seemed to have negative effects on others' rights.
 
I always thought RP made the best argument with regards to abortion:

"Who are we to decide we can throw one baby in the trash, and then do everything we can to save a different baby."

 
KeithLockhart said:
I want gay marriage but I wouldn't feel comfortable having sex with another man.
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yeah, I've stepped into enough fires (from the frying pan) this evening but while I would never tell two consenting adults what they could/couldn't do in the privacy of their own homes, let me ask you this, how many societies over time have allowed or even encouraged same sex marriage? Remember now we aren't talking about same-sex, well "sex", we're talking about marriage which has always been a sort of combination of the religious beliefs of the society involved (and those have certainly varied over the centuries) and the civil rules and regulations of the society involved?

How many? Which ones?
 
sturg33 said:
I always thought RP made the best argument with regards to abortion:

"Who are we to decide we can throw one baby in the trash, and then do everything we can to save a different baby."

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Sorry sturg, this message won't fly, it deals too much with morality (and I mean real morality, not some political photo-op BS morality) and too little with being popular enough to get to sit at the cool kids table. Oh and while I'm on the Paul family, a line from Smokey and the Bandit (from the late great Jackie Gleason to the man playing his son in the movie) comes to mind regarding Ron and his offspring Rand, "There is no way, NO WAY, that you came from my loins!!!!
 
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