Ukraine

Oklahomahawk said:
Putin is an evil and very dangerous man. I've always said that, even back to when W said something about that he could see into his soul (through his eyes) and that he felt like he was an OK dude or something along those lines. Putin is a old line hard core KGB officer who was just born at the wrong time to fit in, IMO.
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He just had the Russia parliament authorize military force in Ukraine. Putins no joke. He wants to reclaim the USSR and he'll try to do it
 
Krgrecw said:
Also goldfly care to admit that Palin was right about this? Instead of calling her an idiot , with personal attacks, was she right or wrong?
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na, i am fine

i didn't make a personal attack

no idea
 
LOL "Palin's got bigger balls than Obama."

Give me a freaking break. She's a republican, so she's more pro-war, but she's also less tactful and less intelligent.

We can't just say "hey russia we're going to muuuuuurder you if you don't stop!" Though, that is likely what Palin would do.

We have no inherent responsibility to do anything. The memorandum we signed with the UK does not require us to "protect" Ukraine from invasion. We have to fix our own country. We do not have responsibility to be world police.

And people wonder why our economy was so effed up. The two wars we were fighting certainly didn't help. And now some want to jump in to another one that we have no real business in. This is an incredibly complex situation, and saying Obama is a "pussy" for not declaring that we will invade is so ****ing stupid it blows my mind.

There is no question in some people's mind about going to war with Russia over the Ukraine? Really? That doesn't give you pause? That's scary, and I'm damn sure happy our current government doesn't feel the same way.
 
yeezus said:
Are you responding to me? Certainly feels like kgrecw is all for doing whatever it takes to stop Russia. I sure as hell am not.
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Oh, I thought there might have been someone that suggested that specifically.

That being said, it's not a particularly brilliant move to allow Russia to exert power in Eastern European former Soviet territories wholly unimpeded. The solution is certainly not troops on the ground, but the first step that Kerry needs to take is to lean on our allies in Western Europe to impose trade sanctions and curtail their purchase of Russian energy (easier said than done, I know).

Obama's cumulative limp-wrist approach to foreign affairs concerns me deeply -- the international community knows that the American president is entirely bark. Putin demonstrated that this AM. He stands nothing to lose by pushing his way into Ukraine. Politically, it's a genius stroke for UR.
 
i would like to know how this is our problem at all

it is in Europes backyard

and it all started from them wanting to join the EU
 
Hawk said:
Oh, I thought there might have been someone that suggested that specifically.

That being said, it's not a particularly brilliant move to allow Russia to exert power in Eastern European former Soviet territories wholly unimpeded. The solution is certainly not troops on the ground, but the first step that Kerry needs to take is to lean on our allies in Western Europe to impose trade sanctions and curtail their purchase of Russian energy (easier said than done, I know).

Obama's cumulative limp-wrist approach to foreign affairs concerns me deeply -- the international community knows that the American president is entirely bark. Putin demonstrated that this AM. He stands nothing to lose by pushing his way into Ukraine. Politically, it's a genius stroke for UR.
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I agree that is sucks and isn't ideal. However, the potential consequences of messing with Russia over the Ukraine are scary.
Russia relies on the West in trade, but countries also rely on Russia. That's what makes it so complicated, and simply calling Obama a pussy in this instance is silly. I don't think he was a pussy for not going in to Syria. That worked out. We KNOW our western allies won't do anything. We can ask and communicate, but nothing will be done except maybe a "stern talking to." The EU is not a military power, and Ukraine is not part of NATO. So who's supposed to help? Why us? Is Ukraine worth it? It's a mess we don't have to jump into, IMO.
 
Hawk said:
That's the problem. Ukraine isn't in 'Europe's backyard' -- it's in Europe.
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we are really going to argue over that?

i know it is in europe

are we going to act like it isn't the backyard for the western power that is know as europe and isn't actually part of it?
 
Oklahomahawk said:
Putin is an evil and very dangerous man. I've always said that, even back to when W said something about that he could see into his soul (through his eyes) and that he felt like he was an OK dude or something along those lines. Putin is a old line hard core KGB officer who was just born at the wrong time to fit in, IMO.
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So much for the Cold War being so 20 years ago. Huh? The left is funny, they mock to no end folks like Romney and Palin, and then when folks like that happen to actually have had foresight on an issue, the leftists can never, no never, admit that they could have been a bit off in their mockery.

Wish folks would get a pair and be able to admit at least every once and awhile when they were wrong.
 
yeezus said:
I agree that is sucks and isn't ideal. However, the potential consequences of messing with Russia over the Ukraine are scary.
Russia relies on the West in trade, but countries also rely on Russia. That's what makes it so complicated, and simply calling Obama a pussy in this instance is silly. I don't think he was a pussy for not going in to Syria. That worked out. We KNOW our western allies won't do anything. We can ask and communicate, but nothing will be done except maybe a "stern talking to." The EU is not a military power, and Ukraine is not part of NATO. So who's supposed to help? Why us? Is Ukraine worth it? It's a mess we don't have to jump into, IMO.
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He's a vacillator. On top of vacillating, then he has a penchant to be pushed into something stupid after dragging his feet. A terrible combination. Thank goodness the Brits saved us in his Syrian foreign-policy debacle.
 
BedellBrave said:
He's a vacillator. On top of vacillating, then he has a penchant to be pushed into something stupid after dragging his feet. A terrible combination. Thank goodness the Brits saved us in the Syria debacle.
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Yes we should encourage plunging ahead and "going with out gut" instead of waiting, learning, and deciding upon the best option. That works in some life decisions, but is not preferable in world affairs, ESPECIALLY against freaking Russia.
 
Again, why is this inherently OUR problem? We don't need WWIII over Ukraine. Some believe Putin controlling all of Ukraine for an extended period will be difficult anyway.
 
BedellBrave said:
Can't recall you ever, ever, admitting you were wrong about anything. Why is it so hard for you? Are you this way in the rest of your life?
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i don't care what palin and her dumbass said on this topic or anything else to be honest

it isn't productive and continues the cycle of nothing in my view

exactly, what am "wrong about" though? i answered his question honestly and forthright and you still are upset
 
yeezus said:
I agree that is sucks and isn't ideal. However, the potential consequences of messing with Russia over the Ukraine are scary.
Russia relies on the West in trade, but countries also rely on Russia. That's what makes it so complicated, and simply calling Obama a pussy in this instance is silly. I don't think he was a pussy for not going in to Syria. That worked out. We KNOW our western allies won't do anything. We can ask and communicate, but nothing will be done except maybe a "stern talking to." The EU is not a military power, and Ukraine is not part of NATO. So who's supposed to help? Why us? Is Ukraine worth it? It's a mess we don't have to jump into, IMO.
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You are right -- our country is in no position to trifle with Russia right now (which is kind of sad if you really think about it). But, to be honest, with the way jingoist sentiments are growing across that country, I can't help but wonder if the current situation in Ukraine is a window we might later regret not fully opening. It's not a decision-making process that I envy in the slightest but, at the same time, my confidence in the Obama administration to handle this (mainly due to a lack of credible diplomats) is minimal. This would've been a great moment to test Hillary Clinton's mettle as SoS.

Also, I wouldn't be so sure that our Western allies will turn a blind eye to what's going on. Instability in the Ukraine directly effects several fledgling EU member states.
 
yeezus said:
Yes we should encourage plunging ahead and "going with out gut" instead of waiting, learning, and deciding upon the best option. That works in some life decisions, but is not preferable in world affairs, ESPECIALLY against freaking Russia.
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You make a wrong assumption. I am not advocating plunging in. I do want to consider this more myself. I'm not advocating jumping into a World War. But what I am saying is that Russia knows it can roll into Georgia, into the Ukraine, etc., without much fear of reprisals due to who Obama is and the type of foreign policy he has practiced. He has to be on top of things in advance and not always playing a reactionary game, where he twiddles his thumbs. His weak foreign policy, whether unintentionally or intentionally, is taking the US down to a second tier status in geo-politics. Maybe that's where we need to be. But there are consequences. And I'm not sure you younger guys understand that well...
 
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