Official 2022 Offseason Moves Thread

Enscheff said:
Pache was unfathomably bad. He was so bad we can’t even look at his stats and come up with things he needs to work on other than “hitting” in a general sense.

Riley at least had positives to build on. Pache literally had nothing positive. Nothing. So it’s almost like our evaluation of him starts from scratch.

But he definitely needs to be given another shot, and it needs to be more than 68 PAs…as long as he at least resembles a MLB player.
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Fair criticism. Just surprises me that everyone here seems to be completely writing him off. I think he’s a pretty clear favorite to be starting in CF to begin the season, and I won’t be shocked if he’s successful.
 
thethe said:
You could have Ynoa/Wright as the back end of the rotation for half the season and see if you need an upgrade and put Strider in the pen.

Need bats.
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Putting Strider in the pen is a terrible, terrible strategy.for his development. Dude is a SP and needs consistent work doing that.

While we have a ton of options at SP, none of them are proven. So relying on 2 of 5 rotation spots with unproven pitchers is an unwise decision too. Especially considering Morton's injury. We should approach this off-season with the understanding that we probably won't start the year with Morton and Soroka in the rotation. Honestly, anything we get from Soroka is gravy at this point. A reliable veteran SP will be needed. Greinke would be my preference depending on cost.
 
thethe said:
Do they anymore?

I think they are at best the third part of a package. At best.


They'll ask for Grissom/Strider as the headlines and have every right to do so.

No thank you. Lets just make sure we are stout at DH/LF and let Pache play CF for 100 games and hope he figures it out with the bat so he isn't basically a pitcher.
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Dude you are crazy. Yes Waters and Pache still have a ton of value. One semi bad season in AAA doesn't change that. Not to mention, losing Reynolds, they'll likely want a CF in return.
 
thewupk said:
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Thoughts on Greinke replacing Smyly as long as the money is right?
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My number 1 pitching option actually. Assuming he won't cost 15 million or more. Around 12 million is where I'd be comfortable.
 
Coredor said:
Does anyone think Pache or Waters are going to be an MLB starting caliber CF at this point. I know most think Pache has a better chance, but he really wasn't that impressive this year. Duvall can play CF, but defensively he seems below average. I was hoping one of those guys could contribute. Acuna is also an option in CF if he recovers well, but I kind of doubt we put him back there.
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Yes I do believe players have a solid chance of being starting caliber CFers, though not at the start of the 2022 season. One bad season after a lost pandemic year doesn't change my opinion on either player. Both players have excellent skill sets. It won't take much for either player to be a starting caliber CFer.
 
Carp said:
Dude you are crazy. Yes Waters and Pache still have a ton of value. One semi bad season in AAA doesn't change that. Not to mention, losing Reynolds, they'll likely want a CF in return.
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Do you think either Pache/Waters are better than the third player in a package for a guy with Reynolds surplus value?
 
Carp said:
Putting Strider in the pen is a terrible, terrible strategy.for his development. Dude is a SP and needs consistent work doing that.

While we have a ton of options at SP, none of them are proven. So relying on 2 of 5 rotation spots with unproven pitchers is an unwise decision too. Especially considering Morton's injury. We should approach this off-season with the understanding that we probably won't start the year with Morton and Soroka in the rotation. Honestly, anything we get from Soroka is gravy at this point. A reliable veteran SP will be needed. Greinke would be my preference depending on cost.
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Its not the same thing but Fried was put in the pen and now he may be one of the top 5-10 pitchers in baseball.

Strider has already shown that minor leaguers are of no consequence to him. He needs to be facing major league hitters.
 
The cost of Grienke for me will be prohibitive relative to the excess value he can provide to what is already on the roster for basically free.

Spend money on the best/cost effective 1b/DH/LF trio.

We have so much pitching that can get us through a regular season assuming the offense is what it can be with some additions.

Then come postseason we have a great top 3 with a strong bullpen for game 4 that is supported by an elite offense.
 
CJ9 said:
He’s not good.
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Oh, I agree.

I don't see him as any significant improvement off of what we have on the roster already.

If you want to go for broke then spend more on a far better pitcher but there are other areas that need more attention on the team.
 
Enscheff said:
Pache was unfathomably bad. He was so bad we can’t even look at his stats and come up with things he needs to work on other than “hitting” in a general sense.

Riley at least had positives to build on. Pache literally had nothing positive. Nothing. So it’s almost like our evaluation of him starts from scratch.

But he definitely needs to be given another shot, and it needs to be more than 68 PAs…as long as he at least resembles a MLB player.
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Lexicographers assemble! I think there needs to be a new word in the dictionary to describe how bad Pache was during his stint in the big leagues in 2021. I'm not going to put him in his baseball grave, but I'm not counting on him for 2022. Presence of the DH can cover some things, but it can't cover the level of performance we saw in 2021. Curious to see what type of CF insurance is in place as the 2022 team is assembled.
 
CJ9 said:
Has anyone actually looked at the year Greinke had last season?
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I have. I wouldn't pay him for what he has been or for the name if that's what you are asking.

But I would be fairly surprised if AA doesn't target a vet starting pitcher that's projected for a 1-2 WAR season for depth. Greinke is in that group among others.
 
Carp said:
Putting Strider in the pen is a terrible, terrible strategy.for his development. Dude is a SP and needs consistent work doing that.

While we have a ton of options at SP, none of them are proven. So relying on 2 of 5 rotation spots with unproven pitchers is an unwise decision too. Especially considering Morton's injury. We should approach this off-season with the understanding that we probably won't start the year with Morton and Soroka in the rotation. Honestly, anything we get from Soroka is gravy at this point. A reliable veteran SP will be needed. Greinke would be my preference depending on cost.
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As I posted yesterday, Strider has less than 100 innings as a professional pitcher and he pitched very little in 2020 because of the truncated college season and the fact there was no minor league season. His stuff looked great in the lower minors, but he got beat up a little bit in AA (which is to be expected for a guy in his first professional season). I think we need to pump the brakes a bit and let him develop on a reasonable schedule.
 
Carp said:
Putting Strider in the pen is a terrible, terrible strategy.for his development. Dude is a SP and needs consistent work doing that.

While we have a ton of options at SP, none of them are proven. So relying on 2 of 5 rotation spots with unproven pitchers is an unwise decision too. Especially considering Morton's injury. We should approach this off-season with the understanding that we probably won't start the year with Morton and Soroka in the rotation. Honestly, anything we get from Soroka is gravy at this point. A reliable veteran SP will be needed. Greinke would be my preference depending on cost.
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1. What's happened to Morton that would have him out at the beginning of the year? A 6-8 week recovery, right? If he's fully functional by Christmas, one would think he'd be available for Spring Training in February.

2. Morton, Fried and Anderson are a suitable big three for a playoff run. The last two spots in the rotation don't need to be filled by higher priced vets that can give a 4+ ERA and eat innings (the Braves got a 4.48 out of Smyly for $11 Million). Ynoa, Toussaint and Mueller gave the Braves similar results for peanuts. Moreover, in order to keep their window open as long as possible, the Braves need to find a way to replace Morton with an internal option at the end of this year. That allows them to spread his $20 million around on raises. From a talent perspective, I understand the best options to currently be a 4 man race between Soroka, Wright, Ynoa and Mueller. The Braves have to give these guys starts in ATL to see if they have a future in ATL. Putting money into a vet arm, would indicate they've already decided they don't. If that's the case, that's really disappointing.
 
OcalaBrave said:
1. What's happened to Morton that would have him out at the beginning of the year? A 6-8 week recovery, right? If he's fully functional by Christmas, one would think he'd be available for Spring Training in February.

2. Morton, Fried and Anderson are a suitable big three for a playoff run. The last two spots in the rotation don't need to be filled by higher priced vets that can give a 4+ ERA and eat innings (the Braves got a 4.48 out of Smyly for $11 Million). Ynoa, Toussaint and Mueller gave the Braves similar results for peanuts. Moreover, in order to keep their window open as long as possible, the Braves need to find a way to replace Morton with an internal option at the end of this year. That allows them to spread his $20 million around on raises. From a talent perspective, I understand the best options to currently be a 4 man race between Soroka, Wright, Ynoa and Mueller. The Braves have to give these guys starts in ATL to see if they have a future in ATL. Putting money into a vet arm, would indicate they've already decided they don't. If that's the case, that's really disappointing.
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I'd be okay rolling with Soroka/Wright/Ynoa/Mueller/Touki/Newcomb mix for the 4 and 5 spots in the rotation for a little bit. But I do feel like it would be a spot we may need to address at the deadline. Look at the Dodgers. They had a stacked rotation, with few depth pieces. Come playoff time, they only had 2 or 3 guys ready to go.
 
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