Zimmerman Trial

Oklahomahawk said:
Dude, I am trying my best to stay out of this one, I simply don't have as much breath to waste as I once did. You guys enjoy and see if anybody's mind changes, even one micron about anything.

Let me know. :icon_biggrin:
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Sturg turned into a libertarian once. Zito is pretending to be a libertarian.
 
Looks like the AG is getting "tough'... Standing your ground on "stand your ground" laws he says to the naacp congregation.

Great, now they are going to take away your right to defend yourself. Look what you have gone and done now Zeets.
 
I'm just going to post this whole article because I thought it was such a powerful message:

Dr. Alveda King, niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., rejected the now-viral image showing the late civil rights leader wearing a hoodie just like the one Travyon Martin wore the night of his death.

“Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. would very likely not wear a hoodie,” she said. “I can assure you he would not wear sagging pants.”
Dr. King made this statement on the Andrea Tantaros Radio Show on Tuesday after being asked what she thought of the image entitled MLK Hoodie – April 4th, 1968.
“I can almost promise you Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. would not wear a hoodie,” she further emphasized later in the interview.
Dr. King also said that people need to think with grace rather than emotions in reference to the image and the overall backlash to the George Zimmerman verdict.
“There was a reasonable doubt in that case,” she said. “So the case went the ways of the laws of this land, but now we need to go further and look at the human heart.”
Dr. King also called out the mongers in the media and elsewhere who are trying to spin the verdict into racial tensions between Caucasians and African-Americans.
“As far as trying to fit the Caucasians against African-Americans, Mr. Zimmerman is a Hispanic,” she said. “Although we are one blood, one human family, one human race, there’s a lot of deception and emotion in these things that are being spurred.”
“Mr. Zimmerman is not a Caucasian. He’s not.”
Even when her uncle was assassinated in 1968, Dr. King said that it wasn’t fair to blame it on Caucasians.
Right before her father left home in order to retrieve the body of the slain civil rights leader, she said she stood in the kitchen ranting, “I hate white people!”
“Alveda, white people did not kill your uncle,” Dr. King’s father said to her as he held her in his arms. “The devil did.”
From that experience, Dr. King learned to answer violent tragedies with love, not hate.
“We answer with reason,” she said. “We answer with sanity.”
Other people have also rejected the image, which was originally posted at Deviant Art.
“It seems over the years, people have forgotten what exactly he (Dr. MLK, Jr.) was fighting for: equality,” one commenter said.

Here's the link
 
Julio3000 said:
You know who's also not Caucasian?

Almost everyone who gets referred to as Caucasian.
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I shouldn't have quoted that part. Figured that would be a distraction, and I thought that was the least important thing she had to say.
 
I feel what she's saying. You can express it in terms of the figurative human heart, or in terms of biology, i.e. we all share the same DNA and common ancestors. Race is a societal construct. It's good.

On the other hand, while I'm sure MLK wouldn't have sported a sag, I think that she glosses over the point of the image. Making assumptions about someone based on what they wear is not too different than judging them by the color of their skin.

Nice sig, btw. One of my favorites.
 
Julio3000 said:
On the other hand, while I'm sure MLK wouldn't have sported a sag, I think that she glosses over the point of the image. Making assumptions about someone based on what they wear is not too different than judging them by the color of their skin.
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Do you think that's how most supporters of the image see that image as representing what you stated? I seriously doubt it. I think she's discussing what the image represents to the general public who supports that image. Most of them view at as a race issue rather than a stereotypical clothing issue.
 
Honestly? I don't know. I think that people get caught up in wanting to believe that Zimmerman either was or wasn't a straight up racist, which is kind of missing the point. No one can know what is in his heart or his mind. Thinking that he murdered Trayvon Martin BECAUSE he was black is a different thing entirely than thinking that he made an assumption about him, based on his age, race, and appearance, that set off the chain of events that led to his death. The decision to pursue him and the language that he used ("****ing punk," "these assholes always get away") indicates a degree of dehumanizing of Martin. I can't put words in anyone else's mouth, but for anyone who's ever had first-hand experience with this kind of assumption, it's bound to bring up some pretty raw feelings.

The trial was what it was. I agree with Ms. King. Zimmerman had his day in court, and his case for self-defense was strong enough to see him acquitted. Throughout this whole discussion, I've avoid beefing with that. I'm just bothered by many people's inability to give some kind of credence to the validity of the buttons that this case pushed, particularly in the black community. They see cops fairly uncritically accepting Zimmerman's story, and rightfully wonder if that would be the case if the shoe were on the other foot. They see a guy who had access to good (read: expensive) lawyers who were able to create a solid depiction of reasonable doubt when most criminal defendants would have been represented by a public defender who probably would have advised their client (as happens in the overwhelming majority of criminal cases) to plead guilty to a lesser charge.

I just find all of the sniping and pissing about the "black community" to be small-minded and unseemly. Let's talk real for a minute. Blacks still have a ****ty deal in America. The fact that Obama is president and Oprah is a billionaire and hip-hop is the essence of mainstream hasn't changed that. I'm 37—not so very ancient—and I grew up in a place and time where people made mean-spirited racist jokes without a second thought. I had friends and teammates who got harassed by cops for having the temerity to be black and be hanging out on the street.* I can't imagine what it would be like to live through this first-hand rather than from the outside looking in. Another personal detail: two of my kids have brown skin and kinky hair. For all the **** that Obama's taken for his "If I had a son" comment, I can't tell you that I wasn't thinking the exact same thing. I do have a son, he does look like Trayvon, and the idea that he might be subject to similar judgement for for his appearance is enough to keep me awake at night.

I think the intention behind the statement is good. I think your reason for posting it is good, and beneficial. My intention is not to jump on you for posting it, so accept my apology if you interpret it that way. I think this whole case has led to a deficit of empathy from all sides. It's not right to assume that George Zimmerman hated black people and essentially hunted and killed a black teen. But it's also not fair to invalidate the concerns that young black men are dehumanized and devalued in our society. That, to me, is ultimately what the Trayvon/King image is about. King's surviving relatives are entitled to have a different viewpoint—they have an image of him that may differ from his symbolic image in America. But let's not forget or invalidate what that image represents to some people.

*This is a fun personal footnote. I went to school with Kevin Garnett briefly. I left the school before he got arrested for "lynching," which was one of the main factors in his family's decision to move him to Chicago for his senior season. The fight started because of a little neo-confederate racist prick with an alligator mouth and a hummingbird ass. He instigated a fight. Guess who got arrested and charged?
 
I don't have any problem with the way you're presenting it, Julio. The problem is that most aren't presenting it that way. Most are just saying silly things like... ZOMG you can kill any black man now armed with skittles? So I can just kill any black man just because he's walking home? Just a ton of silly over emotional comments, and those are the statements that turn folks like me off.
 
That's fine, and I think everybody could benefit from trying to understand everyone else's motivations.
 
Do your intelligence a favor and don't search for #NOJUSTICE on twitter. I may never recover.

Julio, id say about 75% of the time that the winner gets charged. Thats just life... If im standing over some dude thats bleeding out three orifaces on the ground, im going to jail. I do see your point and how it could be seen that way.
 
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