School Choice - It's Time

What good worker has legal protection in the corporate world?

I’m waiting?

Your protection is doing a great job at t would be in privatized education.
 
Oklahomahawk said:
OK, you guys have sold on the basic premise of private schools. I'll be honest, the main things that disturb me about basically dismantling our public school system, which as much as you want to deny it will be the eventuality of it. So, answer me a few questions honestly and if you can provide fair, honest, realistic, and well thought out answers I'll vote your way.

I feel like we're in that one old South Park episode where the underpants gnomes had plan A, which was steal the underpants, and plan C, which was sell them for profit but they really hadn't thought out the plan B part very well. so,

1.) Can we agree that even though you guys are right about the pathetic state of our public school system just dismantling it and blindly going with a privatized system is not because our current system sucks, though it does? Can we agree that it's #1 goal is to destroy the teacher's union because they are thought to block vote Democrat, even though I can tell you at least 80% of the teachers I have ever known wouldn't vote for a Dem if they were the only ones on the ballot.
2.) Does your system have a legal protection element built in to protect the GOOD teachers who really are doing a good job, regardless of which system we go with?
3. How will you qualify and certify your teachers? What process, schooling, testing, etc., will your teachers have?
4.) What will you do when I'm right in that the new system will sell its souls for just a little more money flowing in and they'll sell out to the parents, administrators, and fake (or coached) test scores you guys claim to hold in such regard?
5.) What will be done about situations like this? https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/education/update-epic-charter-schools-co-founders-former-cfo-charged-in-elaborate-scheme-to-defraud-and/article_05a3aab2-f291-11ec-86a7-6389acc89957.html
6.) Do you believe that the police union should also be dismantled because they protect the small percentage of bad cops and punish or silence the many good cops who want to make that system better but can't.
7.) And lastly, what will you do when you finally figure out (whether you'll admit it or not) that your system won't work either because the same serpent is in the new garden as it is in the current one (money and more money at all costs).

OK, sell me on your new system and I mean with actual examples, ideas, etc., that you know the system will consist of, rather than just "privatization fixes everything" or "it has to be better than what we have now".

OK my friends, go for it!!!
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1. The goal is and always will be the education of our children. The teachers union and overbloated school administrations are the #1 obstacle for our children getting good educations. I am gladly pro-destruction of these two entities.

2. Teachers protect themselves by being good at their job. Case closed - No for profit business is going to get rid of exceptional workers. The cuts are always the fat that doesn't deserve to be there anyway.

3. They are qualified and certified based on their results with the kids. College/certification is a bland way of looking at what makes anyone ready for a job.

4. Parents send their money to where their kids get the best education. Any funny business at the schools will result in worse performance on testing and parents send their money elsewhere. FREE MARKET YAY!

5. Prosecute these people to the fullest extent of the law in order to discourage future actions like this. Same thing in regular for profit businesses.

6. Any entity that protects poor performers and worse law breaking employees should be completely dismantled. But in professions like policing the definition of poor performance and law breaking is very different than something like teaching.

7. This won't happen because businesses are forced to respond to market forces and they need to ensure demand is high for their services. When you have a monopoly on the industry you don't care if the demand is low for your services. There are no other options.
 
sturg33 said:
Whoa big surprise here.

Everything the left touches turns to ****

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With their awful new approach, Lowell students managed an average ACT score of 30 and SAT score of 1350 according to the people who make this list.
 
acesfull86 said:
https://www.econtalk.org/roland-fryer-on-educational-reform/

^ Interesting discussion on education reform
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like most economists i are a very big fan of using strong incentives (including cold hard cash) to get desirable outcomes...as you know by now from my posts on another thread

i tell all my students that incentives is my favorite word...and the first day of class i explain that i value class participation and give them some pretty strong incentives to participate
 
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nsacpi said:
like most economists i are a very big fan of using strong incentives (including cold hard cash) to get desirable outcomes...as you know by now from my posts on another thread

i tell all my students that incentives is my favorite word...and the first day of class i explain that i value class participation and give them some pretty strong incentives to participate
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I agree, although getting the incentives right is a challenge. My favorite part of the discussion was when they talked about paying kids to do math homework and what happened as they experimented with increased pay. Ultimately the substitution effect was between math homework and reading homework rather than study time and leisure time. I believe the reading scores dropped and math scores increased by the same magnitude.

That said, the discussion should be how to get the incentives right, not whether they should be used at all.
 
acesfull86 said:
I agree, although getting the incentives right is a challenge. My favorite part of the discussion was when they talked about paying kids to do math homework and what happened as they experimented with increased pay. Ultimately the substitution effect was between math homework and reading homework rather than study time and leisure time. I believe the reading scores dropped and math scores increased by the same magnitude.

That said, the discussion should be how to get the incentives right, not whether they should be used at all.
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Towards the end of the interview he touches on making school vouchers "exportable." I wish he had elaborated on that because I think making the good suburban schools accessible to poor inner city kids would make a yuge difference.
 
The minute public schools collapse is the minute we can begin to rebuild a decent future

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You'll be shocked to learn these mostly private schools are substantially outperforming the public schools

Everything the government touches turns to ****

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Although on a personal anecdotal level I think I greatly benefited from attending a school run by an order of catholic brothers through fifth grade (outside this country). When we moved to Florida I found myself quite a bit ahead of my public school classmates.
 
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Not good.
 
SCOTUS (correctly) ruled that colleges can’t discriminate based on race.

SCOTUS (correctly) ruled that the president cannot unilaterally forgive hundreds of billions of dollars in student loan debt.

Instead of whining, this would be a perfect time for so-called progressives to embrace school choice. Students are leaving our flawed K-12 schools without the requisite skills to succeed in college and in their careers, and the gap is worse along racial and class lines. It’s the common denominator in both of these cases. Take steps towards solving this problem and you reduce the need for affirmative action or loan bailouts downstream.
 
I agree legacy admissions should join affirmative action in the dumpster, but that wasn’t what was being litigated.
 
I am sure the .00001% of legacy admissions is really moving the needle a lot.

It just isn’t that common.

I completely agree these institutions should be standing on their own financial merit instead of collecting massive private donations in the name of higher learning and getting your child a leg up on admissions.

There is zero wrong with having an attachment to your college because you grew up going to FB games of visiting and wanting to go there when you are of age.
 
At the top schools legacy admissions are 10-15%. Some schools don't use them at all. Some give points for grandparents, aunts, uncles and siblings who attended in addition to parents.

At some top schools recruited athletes make up to 20%. Of course at a selective school they're also usually very good students. But between legacy admissions and athletes, the number of spots for garden variety outstanding students get squeezed fast. As a group recruited athletes at top schools come from highly privileged backgrounds. It is an interesting situation. Jocks and legacy admissions really do squeeze out very deserving applicants from less privileged backgrounds.

It is also possible to influence admissions by simply making a very large donation.
 
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