Economics Thread

I’m going to level with you, I just don’t think our government works very well regardless of who’s in power. I disagree with the more libertarian/conservative bunch here in that I do support wider regulation in the form of worker and consumer protections as I don’t think the market can effectively police mistreatment on the part of large companies and I think the Dems have largely done a better job on these fronts.

I also don’t agree that Dems are worse on healthcare than Republicans. I think the system is broken, but I still believe that the solution is to have the government provide that care. Dems have not been effective in getting this done, but I can’t really fault them for this because they’ve never had the votes to do it. Others will disagree, and that’s why I’ve taken thethe to task in this case on tariffs and executive action. The answer isn’t to have the President just do it anyway, it’s to find solutions that work from both sides of the aisle.
I actually agree with you on the regulations. There is a place for that. I think they have at times been too strict and at other times too loose, but in general dirty water and air are bad and profit motive won’t keep them clean.

I used to agree with you on the government running healthcare, but seeing their ability to screw up anything of consequence tempered that. Seeing Canada just kill people off to keep their system afloat completely eliminated it.
 
I actually agree with you on the regulations. There is a place for that. I think they have at times been too strict and at other times too loose, but in general dirty water and air are bad and profit motive won’t keep them clean.

I used to agree with you on the government running healthcare, but seeing their ability to screw up anything of consequence tempered that. Seeing Canada just kill people off to keep their system afloat completely eliminated it.
They have lots of thoughts on our guns though

 
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Its not though. We see how Texas and Florida can financially operate vs New York, Minnesota, California, etc

You cant just say "they're both bad" because one side is very clearly and evidently wasting and or stealing money at scale we do not see from the other
I’m confused as to his conclusions here.

It’s quite obviously more a democrat nanny state issue and it’s not being stopped by the people on those states. In fact it’s being rallied around being done MORE.

Their constituents should be outraged, but just like mqt “I didn’t really have a choice”

Derp. But to be honest it seems purposefully obtuse just so one doesn’t have to self reflect
 
I used to agree with you on the government running healthcare, but seeing their ability to screw up anything of consequence tempered that. Seeing Canada just kill people off to keep their system afloat completely eliminated it.
Where are you seeing this? I went looking for anything to support this claim and I’m only seeing a voluntary MAID program, which is a much different thing. It’s undoubtedly an ethical quandary, but one that doesn’t really have much to do with who’s footing the bill for the doctor to do it.
 
Where are you seeing this? I went looking for anything to support this claim and I’m only seeing a voluntary MAID program, which is a much different thing. It’s undoubtedly an ethical quandary, but one that doesn’t really have much to do with who’s footing the bill for the doctor to do it.
I see the existence of a government ran program to voluntarily kill people as support for that claim. Otherwise they would invest in more mental health. This is cheaper, and one of the most evil and cruel things any modern government does.
 
I see the existence of a government ran program to voluntarily kill people as support for that claim. Otherwise they would invest in more mental health. This is cheaper, and one of the most evil and cruel things any modern government does.
Leftists defending a program murdering citizens is par for the course. Its the marxist doctrine
 
I see the existence of a government ran program to voluntarily kill people as support for that claim. Otherwise they would invest in more mental health. This is cheaper, and one of the most evil and cruel things any modern government does.
Of course they are offering it. Its a much cheaper option for the state and its also a marxist mindset "you'll be better off dead"

You do not get to these numbers they are producing without coercion. If not, there are so many suicidal people in Canada then that implies a much bigger problem.

I choose to use my brain. Mqt will choose to believe what the consensus tells him to

 
I see the existence of a government ran program to voluntarily kill people as support for that claim. Otherwise they would invest in more mental health. This is cheaper, and one of the most evil and cruel things any modern government does.
Suicide prevention is a topic I’m well-versed in, and I think this misses the mark. Presently, Canada only offers MAID as an option for those with a diagnosis that will imminently result in their death. They’ve delayed implementation of MAID for mental health and the guidance suggests they would have to undergo extensive treatment for their mental health condition prior to potentially becoming eligible under the new program. If you contrast that with America today, these are the people we either lock away in an institution, send to prison or cast out to the streets to do crime, much to the chagrin of the conservatives on this board. If you cannot afford mental health services, which are often not covered appropriately by insurance, many patients just die by suicide anyway.

We can debate all we want about the sanctity of life and government’s role in upholding that, and I think there’s a valid concern that the existence of such a program can lead to exactly what you suggest here. I’d certainly like to see the guardrails they have in place before they actually move forward next year with adopting MAID for mental health, but it doesn’t appear to offer a whole lot of cost savings in either its current or future form, and at present is in place for those who are going to die a painful death from a medical condition.
 
Of course they are offering it. Its a much cheaper option for the state and its also a marxist mindset "you'll be better off dead"

You do not get to these numbers they are producing without coercion. If not, there are so many suicidal people in Canada then that implies a much bigger problem.

I choose to use my brain. Mqt will choose to believe what the consensus tells him to

Similar stories have been repeated quite a bit. Families grieving because a healthy sibling or son went to the doctor looking for medication to help with depression or chronic pain, and was instead convinced that suicide was the option.
 
Of course they are offering it. Its a much cheaper option for the state and its also a marxist mindset "you'll be better off dead"

You do not get to these numbers they are producing without coercion. If not, there are so many suicidal people in Canada then that implies a much bigger problem.

I choose to use my brain. Mqt will choose to believe what the consensus tells him to

Again, what is the alternative here? Healthcare doesn’t spring up from the ground naturally in America if you have one of these conditions. No insurance will just cover any and all treatments you want, so your options are to suffer with it, pay for new treatments somewhere or put a bullet in your own head. Canadians are not being offered any less than that under the current model.
 
Similar stories have been repeated quite a bit. Families grieving because a healthy sibling or son went to the doctor looking for medication to help with depression or chronic pain, and was instead convinced that suicide was the option.
If it’s for depression, that’d be a violation of the law as it’s not an eligible diagnosis under the current law.
 
Suicide prevention is a topic I’m well-versed in, and I think this misses the mark. Presently, Canada only offers MAID as an option for those with a diagnosis that will imminently result in their death. They’ve delayed implementation of MAID for mental health and the guidance suggests they would have to undergo extensive treatment for their mental health condition prior to potentially becoming eligible under the new program. If you contrast that with America today, these are the people we either lock away in an institution, send to prison or cast out to the streets to do crime, much to the chagrin of the conservatives on this board. If you cannot afford mental health services, which are often not covered appropriately by insurance, many patients just die by suicide anyway.

We can debate all we want about the sanctity of life and government’s role in upholding that, and I think there’s a valid concern that the existence of such a program can lead to exactly what you suggest here. I’d certainly like to see the guardrails they have in place before they actually move forward next year with adopting MAID for mental health, but it doesn’t appear to offer a whole lot of cost savings in either its current or future form, and at present is in place for those who are going to die a painful death from a medical condition.
Many people, including me, don’t believe the government should have the right to kill murderers, child rapists, mass shooters, etc. Giving them the right, and financial incentive, to kill people who only need treatment for a chronic condition is dark stuff. I’ve known people with chronic conditions that could only be made livable with pain meds that would eventually kill them. It still gave them the time to raise their kids, see grandkids born or married, etc. Pain meds are cheap. Not as cheap as a one time lethal injection, but cheap enough.
 
Many people, including me, don’t believe the government should have the right to kill murderers, child rapists, mass shooters, etc. Giving them the right, and financial incentive, to kill people who only need treatment for a chronic condition is dark stuff. I’ve known people with chronic conditions that could only be made livable with pain meds that would eventually kill them. It still gave them the time to raise their kids, see grandkids born or married, etc. Pain meds are cheap. Not as cheap as a one time lethal injection, but cheap enough.
Yes, that is a much different debate and one I’m not going to attempt to rebut.

For me, this portion comes down to the consent of the patient, but I can respect the argument that it’s always morally inappropriate for the government to be involved in causing the death of its people.

In terms of the broader debate on MAID, I would point out that while some patients find peace with their diagnosis and spend their remaining years in the comfort of love and support from their family, other lonely people take too many pills and take care of it themselves.
 
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lol - the outright denial of how badly the left fucked up Canada is amusing. It’s even worse than what they’ve done in California.
 
I read the report on the ensuing tweet and I agree with the concerns listed. I would point out that in the timeframes listed, these are exceedingly small numbers that are dwarfed by the number of Americans who suffer from similar issues due to an inability to pay for such care. But that’s not a problem for Canada to resolve and they should fix their own system to stop such abuses.
 
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