Affirmative Action

Question to AA. (the poster)

Not to make trouble or start a fight but you often criticize Obama for not doing enough for the black community.
My question is 2 parts --

1) What can he do that he hasn't done outside of giving speeches ?

2) Wouldn't your disappointment put him in the same box you sit when it comes promotions etc? Point being - more is expected due to his skin color.
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Question/ comment to the group. No one has spoken of gender equality. AA (the policy) also addresses that issue
 
I only say that because I think this issue is more complicated than just black or white. Should an upper-middle class black kid in New York get a leg up over a poor white kid living in the rural south? What about other races? Many of the "differences" cited between blacks and whites are the same we see between whites and Asian Americans. I don't think anyone would support affirmative action to help whites in that scenario, and rightly so. I don't know, I'm personally against AA (the issue, not the poster) just like I'm against any form of what I perceive to be discrimination based on race, but I could maybe get behind an effort with a similar intent if it weren't so black & white (pun only half intended). I don't have the answer to what that might be. I think there are a million factors other than race that could explain the outcomes we see in this country. AA to me seems like it will lead to more animosity between different groups.
 
AffirmAct is much more than face to face anti-discrimination. One example would be the Rooney Rule in the NFL. As cumbersome as the rule is in it's present state it does serve a purpose. Before the rule was instituted (there is that word again) black professional coaches were not getting the fair shake they get now even if it is only perception. There is data suppporting that claim

the rule as of today is far from perfect in it's application but the intent is still worthwhile. Seeing it as a black and white issue (have it vs dont have) would be throwing out the baby with the bath water
 
57Brave said:
Question to AA. (the poster)

Not to make trouble or start a fight but you often criticize Obama for not doing enough for the black community.
My question is 2 parts --

1) What can he do that he hasn't done outside of giving speeches ?

2) Wouldn't your disappointment put him in the same box you sit when it comes promotions etc? Point being - more is expected due to his skin color.
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Question/ comment to the group. No one has spoken of gender equality. AA (the policy) also addresses that issue
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Good questions. I will get back to you later on this.
 
I've been in AA's shoes before.

I've worked at places where I busted my ass off, never got a raise and people were complaining that I was making them look bad. I would get more responsibility and more duties, but no higher pay. Perhaps I should've asked but generally speaking whenever I've worked for a white-american owner they wouldn't offer me anything, whereas the an asian/european/foreign owner recognized my work ethic and offered me higher salary or gave me more leeway and cut me more slack.

Anytime I've ever worked for a white-american business owner/manager, I've seen people around me get promotions and raises without even getting close to my productivity, while they milk me for everything.

This was restaurants, retail, etc.

Buddy of mine is working at an ice cream parlor and is the most educated of the people that work there, the 300 lb white girl in high school was offered the managerial position when everyone else that works there is black.

It's funny because whether it was retail or restaurant or sales, I've always had my white co-workers tell me "you work like a mexican".

The one time I received more pay along with more responsibility from a white business owner, she was a New Yorker who was married to an ethnic Greek gentleman and they both loved that I cleaned their restaurant and took care of it compared to the other servers. I would unnecessarily clean more than others and they would get agitated because everyone couldn't leave until all the sidework was done.
 
KeithLockhart said:
I've been in AA's shoes before.

I've worked at places where I busted my ass off, never got a raise and people were complaining that I was making them look bad. I would get more responsibility and more duties, but no higher pay. Perhaps I should've asked but generally speaking whenever I've worked for a white-american owner they wouldn't offer me anything, whereas the an asian/european/foreign owner recognized my work ethic and offered me higher salary or gave me more leeway and cut me more slack.

Anytime I've ever worked for a white-american business owner/manager, I've seen people around me get promotions and raises without even getting close to my productivity, while they milk me for everything.

This was restaurants, retail, etc.

Buddy of mine is working at an ice cream parlor and is the most educated of the people that work there, the 300 lb white girl in high school was offered the managerial position when everyone else that works there is black.

It's funny because whether it was retail or restaurant or sales, I've always had my white co-workers tell me "you work like a mexican".

The one time I received more pay along with more responsibility from a white business owner, she was a New Yorker who was married to an ethnic Greek gentleman and they both loved that I cleaned their restaurant and took care of it compared to the other servers. I would unnecessarily clean more than others and they would get agitated because everyone couldn't leave until all the sidework was done.
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And yet people wonder why those who are not white and willing to work hard for their money do this.

Mexicans work harder than whites, there is no doubt and actually they take pride in their work. If they mess up or not to your standards they in most cases are willing to work for free to fix those issues. If they are white, they would like more money to fix the issue they did not do right the first time.

That pisses me off.
 
Similarly, I think it shows at the country clubs I've taught tennis at.

White American tennis pros would come on the court 5 minutes late, finish "on-time" and still charge them full price for an hour. If I come late, I will not only give them a full 60 minutes from the time I start, I go an extra 15 to make up for being late and just charge them regular price.

The foreign teaching pros would always go the extra few minutes, because you want to solidify your relationship with your clients so they know they're getting everything out of the deal plus extra.

Not all the white-american pros I worked with had that mindset I mentioned at the top, but every pro I've ever come across that milked like that was white-american.
 
Again , both you Sav and AA are speaking in generalities, can I use the word stereotype? Condemning (may be the wrong/ too stronga word ?? ) a race of people based on the bad behavior of the few. Based on skin color - nationality - gender

For the record, I've known many lazy Mexicans and dealt with one Asian the past few days that try as she might cant get four apples when adding 2 apples and 2 apples.

On the other hand I've know many whites that have overcome and made well deserved success of themselves while still being sensitive to the plight of others.
I've know many whites born to privilege that felt it their responsibility to use their privilege to the good of man kind. Be it financial,social or spiritual .
Pretty complicated subject
 
I wasn't implying that it was strictly everywhere.

I said usually when I've worked for a white american owner they were more interested in squeezing every penny out of my work ethic than rewarding.

Me being asian, I only wonder sometimes considering when I've worked for foreign owners they were much more rewarding of hard work.

It why I told niners that savannah is a different animal of corruption.
 
57 most of the white owners I've worked for were very strongly conservative. Ironically the ones that loved my "mexican" work ethic and at the same time loved milking my work ethic. On the flipside the foreign/asian couples weren't afraid to give me more money/slack when my productivity was good. I guess they valued the idea of keeping a strong worker, compared to the former which had the "if you leave somebody else can do it" mentality.

The one white american couple I talked about that did reward me, they were pretty liberal.

Whether there's a correlation there who knows.
 
KeithLockhart said:
57 most of the white owners I've worked for were very strongly conservative. Ironically the ones that loved my "mexican" work ethic and at the same time loved milking my work ethic. On the flipside the foreign/asian couples weren't afraid to give me more money/slack when my productivity was good. I guess they valued the idea of keeping a strong worker, compared to the former which had the "if you leave somebody else can do it" mentality.

The one white american couple I talked about that did reward me, they were pretty liberal.

Whether there's a correlation there who knows.
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I have to admit you are right. The Republicans I work for only cared for the bottom line and those who are liberal do in the most part will pay you what you are worth.

But I have always torched the Republicans on this point, mainly outsourcing. If you can't make a quick buck off the american workers, you take it overseas and that is why I can't stand their party.
 
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