Political Differences

striker42

Well-known member
Our political climate is a vicious one and I think this board is probably a good example of this. Political adversaries are not portrayed as a fellow American with a different point of view but as a mortal enemy who is actively trying to harm you or as an idiot that isn't intelligent enough to see the truth.

In reality, I find that it's rarely a matter of good or evil and that it's often not a matter of intelligence, it is instead a question of priorities. And that's the core of the issue. I don't think people accept enough that someone can have different priorities and that it's okay for that to be the case.

For example, I value being left alone. I want to live my life with limited government interference in my life and a low tax burden. I want the government to keep others from harming me, maintain infrastructure (roads, dams, etc), provide for the national defense, and then stay largely out of my business. What I want to do with my own life is my business and that's what I value.

I do acknowledge that others have different priorities. They value an interconnected community with the government playing the central role. Giving support to those who need it, providing numerous programs and benefits, providing strong regulation, etc.

It's not that what I value is better than what others value, it's simply that we value different things. It's more a matter of preference than of intelligence or morality.

The problem comes with the fact that none of us can achieve our ideal society without the participation of others and our ideal societies are often mutually exclusive. However, someone advocating for government action that is repugnant to your preferences does not make that person evil or an idiot.

So I encourage people to remember, especially as we draw closer to the election, that we're all stuck in this boat together and that someone with different political priorities does not make that person evil.
 
Our political climate is a vicious one and I think this board is probably a good example of this. Political adversaries are not portrayed as a fellow American with a different point of view but as a mortal enemy who is actively trying to harm you or as an idiot that isn't intelligent enough to see the truth.

In reality, I find that it's rarely a matter of good or evil and that it's often not a matter of intelligence, it is instead a question of priorities. And that's the core of the issue. I don't think people accept enough that someone can have different priorities and that it's okay for that to be the case.

For example, I value being left alone. I want to live my life with limited government interference in my life and a low tax burden. I want the government to keep others from harming me, maintain infrastructure (roads, dams, etc), provide for the national defense, and then stay largely out of my business. What I want to do with my own life is my business and that's what I value.

I do acknowledge that others have different priorities. They value an interconnected community with the government playing the central role. Giving support to those who need it, providing numerous programs and benefits, providing strong regulation, etc.

It's not that what I value is better than what others value, it's simply that we value different things. It's more a matter of preference than of intelligence or morality.

The problem comes with the fact that none of us can achieve our ideal society without the participation of others and our ideal societies are often mutually exclusive. However, someone advocating for government action that is repugnant to your preferences does not make that person evil or an idiot.

So I encourage people to remember, especially as we draw closer to the election, that we're all stuck in this boat together and that someone with different political priorities does not make that person evil.

Well said. I've noted on here this place has become gross. I have participated more only to be reminded why I didn't in the first place.

Assumptions rule as a norm and I don't think that gets anyone anywhere of substance but becomes way more divisive. I may be more of a reader from now on.
 
In reality, I find that it's rarely a matter of good or evil and that it's often not a matter of intelligence, it is instead a question of priorities. And that's the core of the issue. I don't think people accept enough that someone can have different priorities and that it's okay for that to be the case.
I agree with your overall sentiment, but I think you are projecting your own morality into the scope of how issues are viewed, which is in essence why there's such a massive movement to recognize your "privilege".

The way an issue is prioritized, might be considered fundamentally evil by others -- and that's the root of the divisiveness.
 
The difference to kenisnone side requires coercion from people to push their solutuons...


Whereas the side I sit on prioritizes freedom.

For example I don't agree with the welfare state. I do agree with helping people in need voluntarily.
 
Admittedly I do find myself feeling more hostile before towards the other side mainly because I find myself hating Trump, and I dislike how everyone has fallen in line. It seems like he has doubled down on the things I most disagree with about the Republicans and is weak on the things where I thought they had a point. I always could be civil with the neo-cons even if I didn't like them that much, but I detest Trump's base. I have some hope for Republicans who want to keep control, but I find myself not even wanting to talk to the Trump true believers.
 
Admittedly I do find myself feeling more hostile before towards the other side mainly because I find myself hating Trump, and I dislike how everyone has fallen in line. It seems like he has doubled down on the things I most disagree with about the Republicans and is weak on the things where I thought they had a point. I always could be civil with the neo-cons even if I didn't like them that much, but I detest Trump's base. I have some hope for Republicans who want to keep control, but I find myself not even wanting to talk to the Trump true believers.

You're cool with the people that fought endless wars but not ok with those that think American citizens should have priority?
 
You're cool with the people that fought endless wars but not ok with those that think American citizens should have priority?

I never agreed with those wars. However I thought they were miscalculated attempts to address real problems. Trump's foreign policy however is an , free trade which had been a central tenant of the Republican party in the preceding years, and his administration has been one big racist, xenophobic dog whistle. In addition he's continued the Bush tradition of not really being worried about fiscal responsibility and being anti-science.

I've never been a Republican, and I doubt I ever will be but we used to have some common ground. At least they made a case for things that needed to be made to maintain balance. Now it seems they're pandering to uneducated, racist, rednecks. In turn this has riled up radicals on the left and the country is a big mess. Frankly I'm hoping moderates in both parties can find a way to find some common ground and put the idiots and fanatics back in their places.
 
I never agreed with those wars. However I thought they were miscalculated attempts to address real problems. Trump's foreign policy however is an , free trade which had been a central tenant of the Republican party in the preceding years, and his administration has been one big racist, xenophobic dog whistle. In addition he's continued the Bush tradition of not really being worried about fiscal responsibility and being anti-science.

I've never been a Republican, and I doubt I ever will be but we used to have some common ground. At least they made a case for things that needed to be made to maintain balance. Now it seems they're pandering to uneducated, racist, rednecks. In turn this has riled up radicals on the left and the country is a big mess. Frankly I'm hoping moderates in both parties can find a way to find some common ground and put the idiots and fanatics back in their places.

Your ok with feeling better about a party even if they destroy a genreration of kids and spend trillions on stupid wars?

I mean...no offense but those are some wild priorities.
 
Your ok with feeling better about a party even if they destroy a genreration of kids and spend trillions on stupid wars?

I mean...no offense but those are some wild priorities.


The wars were a disaster and bad decisions made about legitimate concerns. However weakening our ties with Europe, dismantling trade partnerships with Asian nations which could have actually given us leverage with China, weakening international institutions which help us cooperate and keep us safe, and allowing Russia to expand its influence everywhere is an unmitigated disaster. Bush made mistakes. Trump is a disgrace.
 
The wars were a disaster and bad decisions made about legitimate concerns. However weakening our ties with Europe, dismantling trade partnerships with Asian nations which could have actually given us leverage with China, weakening international institutions which help us cooperate and keep us safe, and allowing Russia to expand its influence everywhere is an unmitigated disaster. Bush made mistakes. Trump is a disgrace.

We are actually strengthening European partnerships with strong countries. Please look into the central European shift.

Places like France/Spain are degrading fast and Germany seems yo want to be buddy buddy with russia so why again would you want to be partners with them?

How about our ties with places like India strengthening or groundbreaking peace accords being facilitated by this administration?

Are you unwilling to see these things?

Did you want more of obamas foreign policy that made Iran stronger and pushing war in the middle east?
 
Germany is not "buddy, buddy" with Russia. We can't even seem to avoid stirring things up with Britain, France, and Canada. Also I'm not even sure what you mean by strong European countries. As to India that's complicated. I'm all for their security and a trade relationship. The main concern should be stability in Asia and hopefully we don't provoke Pakistan. Personally my priority is stability and trade with everyone.
 
Germany is not "buddy, buddy" with Russia. We can't even seem to avoid stirring things up with Britain, France, and Canada. Also I'm not even sure what you mean by strong European countries. As to India that's complicated. I'm all for their security and a trade relationship. The main concern should be stability in Asia and hopefully we don't provoke Pakistan. Personally my priority is stability and trade with everyone.

Places like Hungary/Poland are on the rise and have provided their population with much more security and stability. Western Europe is in for a lot of problems and ig you've seen some trendlines on crime and economic performance the shift to Eastern Europe makes a lot of sense.

No commentary on the middle east policy? Its incredible how little recognition a historic event got.
 
I agree with your overall sentiment, but I think you are projecting your own morality into the scope of how issues are viewed, which is in essence why there's such a massive movement to recognize your "privilege".

The way an issue is prioritized, might be considered fundamentally evil by others -- and that's the root of the divisiveness.

And I think that's the problem. You can believe someone is wrong and their beliefs if given effect would lead to harm, but that doesn't amount to evil. My idea of a perfect society that I'd enjoy might be a society you'd hate and vice vera. Instead of acknowledging my difference in preferences that are unique to me, it's far easier to write me off as advocating evil.
 
Your ok with feeling better about a party even if they destroy a genreration of kids and spend trillions on stupid wars?

I mean...no offense but those are some wild priorities.

Your party deserves the lion's share of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. And Trump's bumbling, stability weakening foreign policy has only lessened the U.S.'s ability to broker peace deals now and in the future.
 
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Your party created deserves the lion's share of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. And Trump's bumbling, stability weakening foreign policy has only lessened the U.S.'s ability to broker peace deals now and in the future.

Republican traditional is a disaster. Hard to argue with that.

Please explain what specifically has trump done to weaken our position and how that will actually manifest itself

Amazing that you just glance over 8 years of obama and giving money to terrorists.
 
Our political climate is a vicious one and I think this board is probably a good example of this. Political adversaries are not portrayed as a fellow American with a different point of view but as a mortal enemy who is actively trying to harm you or as an idiot that isn't intelligent enough to see the truth.

In reality, I find that it's rarely a matter of good or evil and that it's often not a matter of intelligence, it is instead a question of priorities. And that's the core of the issue. I don't think people accept enough that someone can have different priorities and that it's okay for that to be the case.

For example, I value being left alone. I want to live my life with limited government interference in my life and a low tax burden. I want the government to keep others from harming me, maintain infrastructure (roads, dams, etc), provide for the national defense, and then stay largely out of my business. What I want to do with my own life is my business and that's what I value.

I do acknowledge that others have different priorities. They value an interconnected community with the government playing the central role. Giving support to those who need it, providing numerous programs and benefits, providing strong regulation, etc.

It's not that what I value is better than what others value, it's simply that we value different things. It's more a matter of preference than of intelligence or morality.

The problem comes with the fact that none of us can achieve our ideal society without the participation of others and our ideal societies are often mutually exclusive. However, someone advocating for government action that is repugnant to your preferences does not make that person evil or an idiot.

So I encourage people to remember, especially as we draw closer to the election, that we're all stuck in this boat together and that someone with different political priorities does not make that person evil.

That's all fine and good, but where was this wise awareness of pluralism when the Left was being demonized by right wing radio for decades and thethe, like a good little brainwashed soldier, now using the word "left" or "liberal" with unconcealed disgust in every other post for what seems like years? He dreams of well armed bands of Wall Street mercenaries ridding the earth of leftist scum, and wiping their blood from his chin in glorious, profit drowning victory. I never once remember you calling for "a timeout" due to excessive partisanship.

I don't buy it, counselor. Your timing is suspect. It reeks of wanting everyone to play nice now that the pendulum of public opinion is swinging against you.
 
Republican traditional is a disaster. Hard to argue with that.

Please explain what specifically has trump done to weaken our position and how that will actually manifest itself

Amazing that you just glance over 8 years of obama and giving money to terrorists.

That's LMAO funny.

I'll give you a minute.

Jamal Khashoggi
Otto Warmbier
The U.S. State Department
Mike Pompeo
giving the Russians Israeli intelligence in the Oval Office
Marie Yanokovitch
Bill Taylor
Gordon Sondland
Mexico
making the U.S. look like buffoons on the world stage
the NK nuclear arms talks
the Russian Bounty fiasco
the Iran nuclear agreement
Lt. Colonel Vindman
Puerto Rico
Russia in Syria
China around the world
Hong Kong
The Kurds
The Ukraine
the level of trust people around the world have in the U.S.
Japanese people, who deep down respect America allowing it to prosper after its defeat, now are laughing (not a big deal but I experience it)

I'm not even particularly well-informed but I know enough to know that a great deal of the harm OO has done is yet to be revealed.
 
That's all fine and good, but where was this wise awareness of pluralism when the Left was being demonized by right wing radio for decades and thethe, like a good little brainwashed soldier, now using the word "left" or "liberal" with unconcealed disgust in every other post for what seems like years? He dreams of well armed bands of Wall Street mercenaries ridding the earth of leftist scum, and wiping their blood from his chin in glorious, profit drowning victory. I never once remember you calling for "a timeout" due to excessive partisanship.

I don't buy it, counselor. Your timing is suspect. It reeks of wanting everyone to play nice now that the pendulum of public opinion is swinging against you.

Dude, I did not nor will I ever vote for Trump. I've abandoned the Republican party because of this crap (among other issues).

Also, I'm not asking you to stop trying to pursue what you think is best. I'm just asking people not to be dehumanize others for simply having the audacity to disagree. It's not an attribute any party has a monopoly on.

By all means, push your agenda. We just need to stop eating each other.
 
The political differences are in a nut shell one group wants to expand and evolve the New Deal and the other side wants to scrap the New Deal through de regulation and tax cuts.

Wars and soco/poliyical rivalries come and go and serve as electotal vehicles for the opposing ideologies
 
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