Statcast Arm Strength Leaderboard

E

Enscheff

Well-known member
Statcast arm strength data is now available, and it's awesome.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/arm-strength?year=2022&minThrows=100&pos=&team=

I knew Acuna has a good arm, but I wasn't aware it's an 80. The dude is simply the most talented overall player in the game, and I can't wait to see him back to 100% in 2023.

Switching to Braves only shows us they have an 80 arm in RF, and a 70 arm in CF.

Other interesting observations:

Swanson's arm is below average for a SS.

Both Albies and Grissom have below average arms for their position, and it looks like Grissom's arm may be unplayable anywhere other than 2B or LF. However, I'm not convinced arm data for 2B means much since they rarely throw with high effort.

Ozuna's arm is weak, but better than I thought. If you saw a kid pump a ball from the OF at 80+ you'd think he had pro level arm strength. Turns out, that 80+ from the OF would be bottom of the barrel at the pro level.

I thought Riley had a cannon. Apparently not.

All in all the Braves don't have as good of arms around the diamond as I thought they dis. I suppose that tells you something about the value of arm strength.
 
Grain of salt...

This data isn't in its infancy, but it is a toddler. You've mentioned one the shortcomings (short throws from 2B).
One that isn't considered is sample. Harris is a top arm in CF, it's every bit as good or better than Acuna.

This will be good data in 3-4 years when it matures.
 
CJC said:
Grain of salt...

This data isn't in its infancy, but it is a toddler. You've mentioned one the shortcomings (short throws from 2B).
One that isn't considered is sample. Harris is a top arm in CF, it's every bit as good or better than Acuna.

This will be good data in 3-4 years when it matures.
Click to expand...

When it matures? It is literally velocity data taken by the same radar system that measures all velocities on the field. That tech has been "mature" for decades.

Acuna's max velo is 101.5, and Harris' is 100.0. There isn't really a debate...

There may be system tweaking to change where the velo is measured (on release vs mid-flight), but if all guys are rated in the same manner the rankings still stand.
 
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CJC said:
Grain of salt...

This data isn't in its infancy, but it is a toddler. You've mentioned one the shortcomings (short throws from 2B).
One that isn't considered is sample. Harris is a top arm in CF, it's every bit as good or better than Acuna.

This will be good data in 3-4 years when it matures.
Click to expand...

If you want an example sort by Only 1B

Hunter Dozier 78.3
Joey Meneses 77.7

However, both have an 85.6 in RF. They have better arms (many other 1B do as well), but they don't have the game opportunity to uncork a throw.

Also, shift heavy teams will have shorter throws. Riley has had several throws from short right to 1B.
 
Enscheff said:
When it matures? It is literally velocity data taken by the same radar system that measures all velocities on the field. That tech has been "mature" for decades.

Acuna's max velo is 101.5, and Harris' is 100.0. There isn't really a debate...

There may be system tweaking to change where the velo is measured (on release vs mid-flight), but if all guys are rated in the same manner the rankings still stand.
Click to expand...

But just looking at the numbers and ranking them doesn't account for every factor. Look at my follow up. Similar to range factor stuff of old, the "average" will toss out some short throws down the road that lowers that number. I'm assuming they are already dropping 1B underhanded tosses to the P and the MI tosses on double plays.
 
CJC said:
Grain of salt...

This data isn't in its infancy, but it is a toddler. You've mentioned one the shortcomings (short throws from 2B).
One that isn't considered is sample. Harris is a top arm in CF, it's every bit as good or better than Acuna.

This will be good data in 3-4 years when it matures.
Click to expand...

Harris' arm plays up because his accuracy to home plate is incredible, probably due to being a pitcher at one time.
 
Actually I read more into it and they are averaging the top 5% of the throws. So it appears the shorter throws are probably already removed.
 
CJC said:
But just looking at the numbers and ranking them doesn't account for every factor. Look at my follow up. Similar to range factor stuff of old, the "average" will toss out some short throws down the road that lowers that number. I'm assuming they are already dropping 1B underhanded tosses to the P and the MI tosses on double plays.
Click to expand...

Similarly to spring speed, only the top end throws are used in this calculation.

I agree this metric is suspect for 1B and 2B due to the sheer number of low effort throws, but everyone else should be making enough high effort throws that taking their top ~5% velocities represents practical arm strength in a variety of scenarios (moving to their right, to their left, charging straight on, off balanced, etc).

The max for everyone is probably the best measure of pure arm strength...unless you're somehow suggesting some players never throw a ball as hard as they can on the field.
 
CJC said:
Actually I read more into it and they are averaging the top 5% of the throws. So it appears the shorter throws are probably already removed.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't have even bothered posting it if I didn't think they did obvious data analysis like this.
 
Enscheff said:
Similarly to spring speed, only the top end throws are used in this calculation.

I agree this metric is suspect for 1B and 2B due to the sheer number of low effort throws, but everyone else should be making enough high effort throws that taking their top ~5% velocities represents practical arm strength in a variety of scenarios (moving to their right, to their left, charging straight on, off balanced, etc).

The max for everyone is probably the best measure of pure arm strength...unless you're somehow suggesting some players never throw a ball as hard as they can on the field.
Click to expand...

Nope... I would agree... all my qualms are with the average and the fact that the OF and SS will always have higher numbers. You are 100% correct that Max velo is the best read.

Statcast does have the caveat "Given that there is no rulebook definition of "a throw where the player is trying hard," and many non-competitive lobs are captured" So the only downside to that is the crowhopping SS throwing the ball into the dugout skewing something, but that can be seen with a huge difference in the AVG and MAX.
 
If I remember correctly Swansons scouting reports as a prospect said his arm at SS might not cut it. Slightly off topic but the thing I absolutely hate to see in a prospect is their top 2 tools being arm and speed. A strong arm is nice but I would never draft a player based on their arm strength as a position player.
 
Dansby’s arm is weak by SS standards for sure. There obvious. He does have a very quick release and is very accurate. Ozzie has a poor arm and a slow release. Harris and Acuna have absolute cannons. Acuna has an incredibly slow wind up and release though. Seems to Bobble the ball a lot. Where Harris is very smooth. I would have thought Riley would have rated better with his pitching background.
 
jpack1 said:
Dansby’s arm is weak by SS standards for sure. There obvious. He does have a very quick release and is very accurate. Ozzie has a poor arm and a slow release. Harris and Acuna have absolute cannons. Acuna has an incredibly slow wind up and release though. Seems to Bobble the ball a lot. Where Harris is very smooth. I would have thought Riley would have rated better with his pitching background.
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Harris was a high school pitcher as well and some organizations liked him better as a pitcher. Threw in the low-90s. Braves have done really well over the years when assessing pitcher/position player combo guys.
 
Re-infield arm strength - when making ashorter throw, arm strength isn't as important as release time. Quick hands beat a strong arm 9 out of 10 times. There's throws where arm strength is key but when you're only throwing it like 120 feet, if you have a 70MPH throw and an 80 MPH throw that 80 MPH throw gets there only like .2 seconds faster. If the other fielder can get it out of their glove faster, then that can easily make the difference. Even a 90 MPH throw only gets there .35 seconds faster than the 70 MPH throw. Dansby obviously has skills with his hands and glove to make up for it as he grades relatively well at Shortstop overall.


I remember getting into an argument with someone on the old board about Bryce Harper and said I Harper would never be a major league catcher I was told I was wrong because he had a rocket for an arm. When I compared his release time to McCann's it was some stupid difference like half a second or something bananas like that. I then did the math that said he would have to throw the ball twice as hard as McCann to make up for it. And McCann was regarded as a mediocre at best at catching runners stealing.
 
The Chosen One said:
Ozzie has a long side windup. Figures his arm is weak. Dansby seems right at average.


I miss Simba's cannon
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I miss his everything. He was so good at shortstop. That was hands down the worst trade we made. He was on a fantastic contract and we traded him for Sean Newcomb. Newcomb was a hot prospect. But he wasn't worth Simmons who was a 3-4 WAR player on a really friendly contract. Now this isn't as colossal ****up trade as the Olivera trade which was just moronic. And the shipping him out for Kemp trade was horrific too. Basically we traded Wood and Peraza for a Comp pick and -1.2 WAR and millions in wasted cash and the only good things we got was we did get Riley with that comp pick (who's to say we wouldn't have gotten him anyway of course) Alex Wood alone was worth much more than that not even talking about potential trade value he and Peraza had. Just on past value.
 
zitothebrave said:
I miss his everything. He was so good at shortstop. That was hands down the worst trade we made. He was on a fantastic contract and we traded him for Sean Newcomb. Newcomb was a hot prospect. But he wasn't worth Simmons who was a 3-4 WAR player on a really friendly contract. Now this isn't as colossal ****up trade as the Olivera trade which was just moronic. And the shipping him out for Kemp trade was horrific too. Basically we traded Wood and Peraza for a Comp pick and -1.2 WAR and millions in wasted cash and the only good things we got was we did get Riley with that comp pick (who's to say we wouldn't have gotten him anyway of course) Alex Wood alone was worth much more than that not even talking about potential trade value he and Peraza had. Just on past value.
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I always thought the killer in the Simmons deal is that we didn't get maximum value for him because the Three Johns insisted on getting a starting shortstop (who turned out to be the miserable Eric Aybar) in the deal. It was a really odd deal and indicative of the sidesteps the organization took during the rebuild. If you are intent on rebuilding, then tear the whole thing down (which I supported) and get maximum value for the established players you are trading (which they didn't).

The Olivera deal was bad for two reasons: (1) Olivera was not the player the Braves (and pretty much all of major league baseball) thought he was, and (2) the Braves started making these moves that were premature given where they were actually at in their contention window. Same thing goes for when they traded Jose Yepez for Matt Adams. The Three Johns somehow thought they were much further along.
 
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It reeks of the Tex trade. As I recall we had a better offer from someone (Boston maybe?) but we wanted a major league 1B back. So we made that mediocre trade with Anaheim. I won't say we could have had trout because who knows where the Angels valued him as they had back to back picks they may have still taken him with their OG pick, or the braves could have bumbled it and let trout fall to an even better team, like the Red Sox or Yankees.
 
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