WARriors: I'm not a Luddite.

GovClintonTyree

GovClintonTyree

<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
I like the idea of valuing players this way. It's just...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/10-degrees--why-war-doesn-t-always-add-up-030133203.html

"Putting a true number on their contributions would be wonderful. We're just not there yet. Not when Cameron himself, in a recent chat, said WAR's margin of error is "maybe pushing towards two in the case of an extreme defensive rating.""

Zito, does this make sense to you? Or do we have to continue to wander around in the WAR forest?
 
That is a wonderful article. Essentially stating what I've been saying for a couple years now.
 
I read this guy's twitter feed and he doesn't seem to know what he's talking about for the most part. He got into it with a few people and can't ever seem to explain his point of view other than his own "eye test" is more important than stats. He pretty much believes that defense isn't as valuable as offense as well. He also calls RF an easy position to play as well. He just sounds like a moron. I realize there are some great hitters but why should we ignore the fact that someone can be poor at defense and that does in fact lower their value to the team. Also the "Braves" fan in the comments that said Heyward is barely the 4th best player on the team...:facepalm:
 
Very soon there will be complete data about player movement and ball flight for every play that occurs in MLB. At that point we will know exactly which players converted which batted balls, and will be able to assign runs saved accordingly.

It will be refreshing to not have to read this same debate every week.
 
BremanFan88 said:
I read this guy's twitter feed and he doesn't seem to know what he's talking about for the most part. He got into it with a few people and can't ever seem to explain his point of view other than his own "eye test" is more important than stats. He pretty much believes that defense isn't as valuable as offense as well. He also calls RF an easy position to play as well. He just sounds like a moron. I realize there are some great hitters but why should we ignore the fact that someone can be poor at defense and that does in fact lower their value to the team. Also the "Braves" fan in the comments that said Heyward is barely the 4th best player on the team...:facepalm:
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The idea that RF defenders suck is humorous. Comparing RF to LF seals the deal for me. When an athlete like Jayson Werth, Hunter Pence, and Yasiel Puig grade out as slightly above average to below average.
 
zitothebrave said:
The idea that RF defenders suck is humorous. Comparing RF to LF seals the deal for me. When an athlete like Jayson Werth, Hunter Pence, and Yasiel Puig grade out as slightly above average to below average.
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You just named some pretty poor defenders. What is your point?
 
gilesfan said:
You just named some pretty poor defenders. What is your point?
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Jayson Werth and Hunter Pence used to graded quite well, then some higher grade of talent has come in and bumped them down. If RF was so terrible an athlete like that (say Soriano) would be able to get great numbers there. Maybe you're just wrong and won't admit it cause these metrics maybe Bryciiii look bad but Jason good.
 
zitothebrave said:
Jayson Werth and Hunter Pence used to graded quite well, then some higher grade of talent has come in and bumped them down. If RF was so terrible an athlete like that (say Soriano) would be able to get great numbers there. Maybe you're just wrong and won't admit it cause these metrics maybe Bryciiii look bad but Jason good.
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Jason Werth is an awful right fielder. You can try to spin it all you want, but he's terrible. Not only is his range pathetic, he's dropped at least 4 routine fly balls this year. And many others he missed like the one from Doumit tonight.

Hunter Pence? I assume you've never seen him play RF?

But hey, him and Matt Kemp are athletic! Ps, your metrics don't even have Harper as a "bad" fielder.
 
I saw him play RF for years. Saw Werth too. Werth sucks now compared to his peers, Pence was a good RF, then he lost a few steps and much talented player in Jason came into the mix. My favorite part of the article was when he talked about Jason's performance in CF. citing a paltry sample.
 
Good article. There is always going to be subjectivity when measuring defensive performance. Even with the new system, how much of the performance will be due to players' performance and how much to the advance scouting that told the manager where to station guys and how much to pitchers' ability to "pitch to the defense?"
 
50PoundHead said:
Good article. There is always going to be subjectivity when measuring defensive performance. Even with the new system, how much of the performance will be due to players' performance and how much to the advance scouting that told the manager where to station guys and how much to pitchers' ability to "pitch to the defense?"
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And how much will have to do with atmospheric pressure fluctuations due to flatulence? Every stat has a flaw, they all tell something. Lets pick on homers. Is a homer that is a flyball out at most stadiums that lands inside the Pesky pole, or in whatever that unnecessary porch in Houston is. People like counting stats and the stats that come from them cause they can see them. They can't see all the plays that the folks at BIS are tracking. Every stat has an issue, but we trust those other stats, is there a reason for not trusting the others? Aside from it's just what people grew up with?
 
zitothebrave said:
And how much will have to do with atmospheric pressure fluctuations due to flatulence? Every stat has a flaw, they all tell something. Lets pick on homers. Is a homer that is a flyball out at most stadiums that lands inside the Pesky pole, or in whatever that unnecessary porch in Houston is. People like counting stats and the stats that come from them cause they can see them. They can't see all the plays that the folks at BIS are tracking. Every stat has an issue, but we trust those other stats, is there a reason for not trusting the others? Aside from it's just what people grew up with?
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I don't even pay that much attention to counting stats alone. You have to go to the next level of analysis and some of the new stats provide that. But good players are good players and bad players are bad players and it doesn't take long to figure out the rough ranking of who is what.
 
It's kind of hilarious that giles knows exactly how many routine fly balls Werth has dropped this year.

(it's because the memories of each are so painful that they stuck with him)
 
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