Well Said Paul Ryan

I always wondered who thought I was stupid enough to believe that getting rid of SS the way it is now is only about giving more freedom to Americans. I don't know what sturg's end game is on this so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on it, but is there anybody here who doesn't think a great big part of that whole plan was to eliminate the requirement for employers to have to match part of the employee contribution into SS? Just another "poor old us" line from the makers so to speak.

Oh and there isn't anything wrong with SS that 2 political parties full of thieves being forced to not only stay the eff out of that fund, but to have to pay back every penny their presidents and Congresses have flat out stolen. I find it very troubling for aholes in Washington talking about SS that working people, who they claim to love, have paid into their entire adult working life as an "entitlement". Oh and about not making those who make above the cap have to pay in SS for their entire salary instead of just the first how much $120,000 or something like that?
 
Oklahomahawk said:
I always wondered who thought I was stupid enough to believe that getting rid of SS the way it is now is only about giving more freedom to Americans. I don't know what sturg's end game is on this so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on it, but is there anybody here who doesn't think a great big part of that whole plan was to eliminate the requirement for employers to have to match part of the employee contribution into SS? Just another "poor old us" line from the makers so to speak.

Oh and there isn't anything wrong with SS that 2 political parties full of thieves being forced to not only stay the eff out of that fund, but to have to pay back every penny their presidents and Congresses have flat out stolen. I find it very troubling for aholes in Washington talking about SS that working people, who they claim to love, have paid into their entire adult working life as an "entitlement". Oh and about not making those who make above the cap have to pay in SS for their entire salary instead of just the first how much $120,000 or something like that?
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I didn't say it was "only about giving more freedom to Americans."

But wouldn't that be a good enough reason to do anything?
 
sturg33 said:
I didn't say it was "only about giving more freedom to Americans."

But wouldn't that be a good enough reason to do anything?
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That's why I excluded you from at least the majority of my response. I know you and I agree on some things, especially economic things, but I do not believe you are like those people I mentioned whose only real goal from dismantling SS is to give even more money to the wealthy and to corporations and screw the workers.

Do you think that SS is an "entitlement"?

Do you think both parties should have to pay back every penny they've stolen from the SS fund over the years?

Do you think that a great majority of those who scream for doing away with the system really care about the freedom of the American worker or are they in it to make even more profits for themselves? Remember I already said that I didn't consider you to be in this group.

For the record if there is a way to allow those who are capable of investing for themselves, which I believe you are one of those, to do their own investing without further disrupting or destroying the system then I say "go for it". You and I both know 98% of Americans are not capable of this.
 
Oklahomahawk said:
That's why I excluded you from at least the majority of my response. I know you and I agree on some things, especially economic things, but I do not believe you are like those people I mentioned whose only real goal from dismantling SS is to give even more money to the wealthy and to corporations and screw the workers.

Do you think that SS is an "entitlement"?

Do you think both parties should have to pay back every penny they've stolen from the SS fund over the years?

Do you think that a great majority of those who scream for doing away with the system really care about the freedom of the American worker or are they in it to make even more profits for themselves? Remember I already said that I didn't consider you to be in this group.

For the record if there is a way to allow those who are capable of investing for themselves, which I believe you are one of those, to do their own investing without further disrupting or destroying the system then I say "go for it". You and I both know 98% of Americans are not capable of this.
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Do you think that SS is an "entitlement"? I don't care so much for the technicalities of the language so much as the deficiencies of the program. Call it what you want... I don't care. But it's not a sustainable program in its current format. Having said that, I don't blame all the people who have been forced into the program... that is money they are owed

Do you think both parties should have to pay back every penny they've stolen from the SS fund over the years? Yes. And that's another reason to do away with the program... our government has proven that they cannot help themselves from stealing from the fund... and SS - just like other taxation and borrowing, is stealing from the people... the least they could do is not steal it a second time

Do you think that a great majority of those who scream for doing away with the system really care about the freedom of the American worker or are they in it to make even more profits for themselves? Remember I already said that I didn't consider you to be in this group. I don't know if liberty is the main reason... but I think a majority of people who want to do away with it have that opinion because it's not a sustainable program and will eventually collapse

For the record if there is a way to allow those who are capable of investing for themselves, which I believe you are one of those, to do their own investing without further disrupting or destroying the system then I say "go for it". I wouldn't mind if the government set up a bond/investment program for people to access... But at the very least, the government should allow me to opt out, and take the 13% pay raise. They force me to be in it... and then tell me when it's time to collect that I've made too much money and can't have it anymore... It's all BS

You and I both know 98% of Americans are not capable of this. That is no excuse for the government to set up a ponzi scheme program and force everyone to take part in it. It's not the government's job to take care of every need of every person.
 
sturg33 said:
Do you think that SS is an "entitlement"? I don't care so much for the technicalities of the language so much as the deficiencies of the program. Call it what you want... I don't care. But it's not a sustainable program in its current format. Having said that, I don't blame all the people who have been forced into the program... that is money they are owed Then we are in agreement.

Do you think both parties should have to pay back every penny they've stolen from the SS fund over the years? Yes. And that's another reason to do away with the program... our government has proven that they cannot help themselves from stealing from the fund... and SS - just like other taxation and borrowing, is stealing from the people... the least they could do is not steal it a second time Oh I think it could easily be protected and I think making both parties pay back what's already been stolen would be a good place to start. The problem is neither side really wants to do the right thing, they want to do the expedient thing. And since nobody is willing to really hold them accountable they can. I don't see us in any large amount of disagreement on this one either.

Do you think that a great majority of those who scream for doing away with the system really care about the freedom of the American worker or are they in it to make even more profits for themselves? Remember I already said that I didn't consider you to be in this group. I don't know if liberty is the main reason... but I think a majority of people who want to do away with it have that opinion because it's not a sustainable program and will eventually collapse Again if you make them put back what's been stolen it would certainly be a lot more sustainable, at least then there would be something to work with to make some sort of "better system" if you will. I notice you didn't address my contention about that IMO most of the upper crust who blast the system are tying to "back door" the part where they don't have to pay their matching contribution for their workers. Clearly not everybody is in this boat but I'll bet you a lot more feel this way than those who don't. Personally I think this is probably our biggest area of disagreement and I don't see it as insurmountable honestly.

For the record if there is a way to allow those who are capable of investing for themselves, which I believe you are one of those, to do their own investing without further disrupting or destroying the system then I say "go for it". I wouldn't mind if the government set up a bond/investment program for people to access... But at the very least, the government should allow me to opt out, and take the 13% pay raise. They force me to be in it... and then tell me when it's time to collect that I've made too much money and can't have it anymore... It's all BS Again I believe you are perfectly capable of investing for yourself and because of that I am totally OK with you being allowed to do so. This is another area of agreement.

You and I both know 98% of Americans are not capable of this. That is no excuse for the government to set up a ponzi scheme program and force everyone to take part in it. It's not the government's job to take care of every need of every person.
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I don't completely disagree with you on this, but I do think your view of SS is a bit short sighted (maybe that's not the correct word but hear me out). A ponzi scheme is where the crooked person in charge of it took money a long time ago and is now using all the new money he/she gets to cover the immediate costs with no vision for the future (borrowing from Peter to pay Paul as it were). Do you agree? So make Mr. Madeoff pay back what he stole and then use those resources to maybe develop a better way. Just letting him get away with grand theft on such a large scale and then pointing out how broke the system is sucks way worse IMO than just calling it a ponzi scheme. We admit almost every day that our system is broken and that there's nothing we can do about it. Well there is something we can do but look at the people who are running for president. Do they look like a group of folks who could find water if they fell out of a boat, let alone fix major issues? Until we start demanding quality from our elected officials and accepting nothing less things literally will never get any better and you've got a LOT more invested in this than I do, I'm old and getting older by the nanosecond. You're still a very young man. Remember your previous point about people being able to invest for themselves? Picture the millions of numbnuts who have placed these 5 individuals at the head of the line to be our leader. Does that sound like they can order lunch for themselves let alone invest for their future?
 
sturg33 said:
How do we have a "social safety net" if the country is adding a trillion dollars of debt per year?

I'd prefer to be able to have my money and invest it how I please. The unfunded liabilities attributed to social security make it completely unsustainable... and anyone who suggests making changes to it are vilified.

I know that giving people more responsibility is a foreign concept to you folks... but, wouldn't it be nice? Instead, the government confiscates 13% of my pay because it thinks I'm too stupid to save for retirement... I guess they're afraid I may spend more than I save... and clearly they are much better at handling finances than the average american
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Whoa, careful with the "unfunded liabilities" and "completely unsustainable" bit. SS is entirely sustainable with some minor tweaks.

You're smarter than the average American? Good for you, buddy. Most of us old folks and peons rely aren't so blessed. Anyway, I'd still suggest reading up on the why's and wherefore's of the program.
 
Is it just me or does Paul Ryan look like the brother of that one guy on NFL network?

ryansiciliano.jpg
 
LOLGOP ‏@LOLGOP · 1h1 hour ago

Why isn't the GOP sane like it was when Paul Ryan was willing to destroy the global economy if he couldn't cut Social Security & Medicare?!

.........

Certain on this end it would have succeeded if only he hadn't gone
#makers and takers
 
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