Who should manage the Braves?
- Thread starter mikewon
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cajunrevenge
Well-known member
its a trick, there is no manager fans would be happy with.
Dusty Baker
striker42
Well-known member
Fans like to judge managers based on what a manager does in game as that's the only part of their job we see. It's only a fraction of what they do.
The bulk of a manager's job is what the name is, managing. A manager is given 25 egos with new egos being rotated in an out and the manager has to ensure everything runs smoothly. The goals of managing a ball club are not very different than managing any group of people. Your job is to make sure your employees get their work done and do it well.
With players, it's easy to think of their job as being what happens between the lines. But again, that's only a small part of it. A ton of work is required off the field to make sure you're successful on the field and it's the manager's job to make sure that off the field work is done. You need to make sure your players are spending time in the video room, make sure they're reading the reports on upcoming opponents, make sure they're getting their fielding practice in, make sure they're spending enough time in the weight room, make sure they're not packing on weight, and on and on.
That's where a manager makes his money. If you have a lot of conflict in the clubhouse, guys will be less motivated to work (think of jobs you've been in where the atmosphere was toxic, how productive were you?). If guys can walk all over you or if you're too hard on them, they're not going to be motivated to put in extra work in preparing for games.
Honestly, what I want in a manager is a guy who has his team ready for first pitch. Bench strategy is the easiest thing to improve. Advanced stats and scouting reports that a bench coach has a mastery over can go a long way in that.
The bulk of a manager's job is what the name is, managing. A manager is given 25 egos with new egos being rotated in an out and the manager has to ensure everything runs smoothly. The goals of managing a ball club are not very different than managing any group of people. Your job is to make sure your employees get their work done and do it well.
With players, it's easy to think of their job as being what happens between the lines. But again, that's only a small part of it. A ton of work is required off the field to make sure you're successful on the field and it's the manager's job to make sure that off the field work is done. You need to make sure your players are spending time in the video room, make sure they're reading the reports on upcoming opponents, make sure they're getting their fielding practice in, make sure they're spending enough time in the weight room, make sure they're not packing on weight, and on and on.
That's where a manager makes his money. If you have a lot of conflict in the clubhouse, guys will be less motivated to work (think of jobs you've been in where the atmosphere was toxic, how productive were you?). If guys can walk all over you or if you're too hard on them, they're not going to be motivated to put in extra work in preparing for games.
Honestly, what I want in a manager is a guy who has his team ready for first pitch. Bench strategy is the easiest thing to improve. Advanced stats and scouting reports that a bench coach has a mastery over can go a long way in that.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
You name the manager and I will find their fans bitching about him being a terrible manager.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
I still think we should utilize our coaches like football does. Hitting coordinator would be in charge of hitting, hit and run, hunting, who pinch hits when the manager wants to call for a guy. The pitching coordinator calls games if needed. Makes pitching changes. Defensive coordinator control shifts. Also recommends defensive subs. Bench coach coordinates the coordinators to make sure they are working together and not burning players unnecessarily. The manager manages the game and personalities and ultimately has the final say on decisions.
Runnin
Well-known member
97 wins and 2 pennants should speak volumes more than a few internet trolls. Add to that the good vibe the team has and how hard they play and you would think our fans would be more than willing to give Snit the benefit of the doubt on in-game decisions, especially since Snit is always privy to a lot more information than the average fan.
Advanced stats have a place in making in game move decisions, but the manager gets to call the shots and has to answer for it in wins and loses. I can understand someone making the argument that Snit could do things differently, but dogmatically harping about Snit's stupidity makes one look silly, imho.
To the Chosen One: We should be able to put anyone on ignore. hint, hint
Advanced stats have a place in making in game move decisions, but the manager gets to call the shots and has to answer for it in wins and loses. I can understand someone making the argument that Snit could do things differently, but dogmatically harping about Snit's stupidity makes one look silly, imho.
To the Chosen One: We should be able to put anyone on ignore. hint, hint
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Runnin
Well-known member
Another thing about Snit, he's got several ex-managers on his staff and he manages them, too. Not many managers with his lack of big league experience could thrive in that kind of atmosphere. I think having all that experience around the players is a big reason the guys are playing as consistently well as they are. Snit deserves credit for bringing in those big names letting and giving them the space to do their thing.
And you can be sure they are putting their 2 cents in on personnel moves.
And you can be sure they are putting their 2 cents in on personnel moves.
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striker42
Well-known member
Guys who can make sure their players are ready for first pitch are rare. This isn't just players liking the manager. Players liked Freddie. They didn't particularly respond to him as their leader.
A manager who is a phenomenal clubhouse leader and is also a brilliant bench strategist would be great. But if it was as easy to find one as just saying "get you somebody who can do both" then there wouldn't be so many bad managers out there.
I suspect Snitker has stats available to him that are way more in depth than anything we have (the Braves have statisticians whose full time job is to dig into the stats). I'll bet Walk Weiss has binders of stuff at his finger tips during games. And I'll also bet that some of the counter intuitive moves Snit has made in game have been informed by those stats. Maybe there was something in all the information about Duvall and Flaherty that told Snit it was a good matchup. Who knows?
I just find the idea that the manager who led a team picked to finish 3rd or 4th in the NL East the last two years to two straight division titles is getting constantly attacked by fans who see a fraction of what all he actually does to be pretty ridiculous.
striker42
Well-known member
I don't know if I'd go quite as far as you but I think there's a very good point you're making. The game is getting more complex every year. Everything from advanced stats to new tech to analyze swings or pitching mechanics to the ability to instantly track the speed of players or how quick a catcher's release is. It's getting to be too much for one manager in game.
I think you probably do need a hitting coach or coordinator to be completely in command of everything as it relates to hitting and pitching coach doing the same thing. These guys need to be constantly communicating with the bench coach and the manager just to keep everyone on top of everything. I honestly don't want Snit to be flipping through spreadsheets during the game trying to figure out that edge. His people should be sifting through that, pulling out the best info, and bringing that to Snit.
it says a lot...about the talent of the team.
Snit has repeatedly made boneheaded moves that cost the team games. these moves will be amplified in the playoffs.
a lot of managers could manage this team to 90+ wins...i'd say a large majority of them.
i don't think the manager has a huge effect on the season as a whole. but in dicey situations in the playoffs, a dumb move can and will cost you.
he has a very talented team. in that time, Acuña, Albies, Soroka, Fried, Donaldson, etc have joined his team. those guys are far and away the biggest reasons Snit has won games as a manager. giving him credit for not torpedoing a very talented roster isn't my jam.
Snit isn't a good manager. he is one of the ones who isn't good. i'd bet Mickey Callaway would win 90+ with this roster. any "bad" manager out there likely isn't much different than Snit. they just have worse teams. this idea that Snit wills this talented group to victory is quite silly.
striker42
Well-known member
Have you ever managed people before? Do you know how hard it can be at times to motivate people to do the work they have to do? Do you know the kind of productivity drain that can occur when one of two bad apples cause strife withing your group?
That's just managing people in an ordinary job. An MLB manager has to make sure 25 people (many prima donnas) gel as a unit, that no one is causing problems, and that all of these people are getting their work done with the fact that many of these individuals are set for life and aren't exactly working hard to make rent. That's an insanely difficult task that DOES have an impact over 162 games.
yes, Snit is the reason these super talented players work hard and produce.
Josh Donaldson and Freddie Freeman were lazy bums before Snit motivated them to be great on a consistent basis. Acuña and Albies bust their asses to be better because Snit lights a fire under them.
managing in regular jobs is nothing like it is in the MLB. players make it to this level partially due to their insane work-ethic regardless of who is managing their teams.
again, give this group of players to most MLB managers and they'll do similarly well in the regular season. it isn't rocket science to manage a team this talented.
striker42
Well-known member
You seem to think the only thing that matters to a player's success is their god given talent. That's absolutely not true. Talent gets you half way, hard work gets you the rest of the way. Every player on that team, no matter how talented, would not be successful without countless hours in the cage or in the bullpen. Even more countless hours watching video and reading reports. More hours on the field taking grounders. Even more time in the weight room. I could go on.
It's a manager's first and most important job to make sure the players are doing the work they have to. If a manager is making blunders in game, I'm as apt to blame the front office as the manager. Those blunders can usually be prevented by ensuring a manager has the right tools and that this staff is providing the support necessary.