Braves trade for Chris Sale - Grissom going to Red Sox (Extension through 26 at 18M)

DirkPiggler said:
The extent of my pitching coach experience involves kids aged 9-10 in league ball, so take it for what it's worth, but it seems to me like a good plan for Sale (and Morton for that matter) would be something like this. Never throw a 100th pitch in a game, and skip a start every 5th or 6th time through the rotation, maybe with an IL stint for "dead arm" thrown in somewhere around late July/early August. You certainly don't want to overwork any of the starters, especially the older ones, but by the same token you don't want them to get completely out of their routine or lose conditioning either. I'm concerned that the idea of supposedly saving Sale for October might be taken to the extreme to the player and the team's detriment.
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I give this plan my full endorsement
 
thewupk said:
Snit is a great lockerroom manager. And honestly that's a huge part of his job. He just needs to be micromanaged a bit for in game decisions. In Bobby's day it wasn't that big of a deal because nobody knew any better. But we have the information today to make optimal decisions.
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I think the role of manager, by definition, includes multiple tactical decisions that give fans the opportunity to second guess - and to take heat when it comes out wrong. And sometimes, they push the wrong buttons. But sometimes, we make our judgements with incomplete information. Periodically, for instance, we'll twist off about why he pitched this guy instead of that guy and find out after the fact that the better guy in that situation was down.

Of course, sometimes it's just fun burying the manager, and it's easy to envision a person as workaday as Snit being retarded. I don't think he's a savant, but I'll bet we don't have complete information for a lot of the decisions we hate. And the guy has won at a .600 clip with six divisions in a row and a WS. While Anthopoulos was the biggest reason for that, Snit was a big piece, too.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
I think the role of manager, by definition, includes multiple tactical decisions that give fans the opportunity to second guess - and to take heat when it comes out wrong. And sometimes, they push the wrong buttons. But sometimes, we make our judgements with incomplete information. Periodically, for instance, we'll twist off about why he pitched this guy instead of that guy and find out after the fact that the better guy in that situation was down.

Of course, sometimes it's just fun burying the manager, and it's easy to envision a person as workaday as Snit being retarded. I don't think he's a savant, but I'll bet we don't have complete information for a lot of the decisions we hate. And the guy has won at a .600 clip with six divisions in a row and a WS. While Anthopoulos was the biggest reason for that, Snit was a big piece, too.
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You mean like not letting certain players pitch because they have a dead arm? Or pushing our starters for extra innings when they have nothing left because the bullpen is in even worse shape ?
Or not letting a player with a severely pulled groin not play catcher very much ?
Are you suggesting our fans like to bitch about things they don’t understand ?

There is gambling at Casablanca ?
 
I like our bullpen depth currently because we essentially have high leverage pitchers to cover from the 6th to the 9th.

Iglesias
Minter
Johnson
Lopez
Jimenez

Then guys like Stephens, Matzek, Murfee, etc. that can fill in.
 
bravesfanforlife88 said:
I like our bullpen depth currently because we essentially have high leverage pitchers to cover from the 6th to the 9th.

Iglesias
Minter
Johnson
Lopez
Jimenez

Then guys like Stephens, Matzek, Murfee, etc. that can fill in.
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Hell, that’s enough guys to cover from the 5th to the 9th….

And what if Matzek is back to his old self ?

This is an amazing pen… and I thought last years was pretty epic -
 
Managing in the regular season and managing a playoff series are very different animals. While Snit is barley acceptable during the regular season, he is unacceptable in the playoffs where every small advantage is magnified. The Braves roster continually has to overcome his bumbling tactical management.

It starts every single day with his inability to rest anyone other than his catchers, and ends with his inability to put hitters in advantageous platoon situations late in games. He just can’t figure it out, and it’s one of the biggest hurdles this team faces as it attempts to win championships.

The FO would be wise to make every single playoff game a paint by numbers after for Snit so he doesn’t waste the best teams Atlanta has ever had.
 
One thing I wish the Braves would do is play 1-2 games a month like a postseason game. Pick a game where everyone is reasonably rested with an off day the game, and play it like a game 7. Make every single optimal move during 5-10 games per season so everyone is ready for it in October. The last thing I’d want to see is Lee serving as the opener for the first time in his career in a playoff game…oh wait…that’s happened.
 
DirkPiggler said:
The extent of my pitching coach experience involves kids aged 9-10 in league ball, so take it for what it's worth, but it seems to me like a good plan for Sale (and Morton for that matter) would be something like this. Never throw a 100th pitch in a game, and skip a start every 5th or 6th time through the rotation, maybe with an IL stint for "dead arm" thrown in somewhere around late July/early August. You certainly don't want to overwork any of the starters, especially the older ones, but by the same token you don't want them to get completely out of their routine or lose conditioning either. I'm concerned that the idea of supposedly saving Sale for October might be taken to the extreme to the player and the team's detriment.
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I agree about this on Sale but I don't think Morton needs quite the same amount of handling with kid gloves. I think Morton is fine to reach 100 pitches. Not too far north of that but 100 pitches is just an arbitrary cutoff point. Sale should be limited to around 80 pitches imo. If Lopez isn't in the rotation I would love to see piggybacking him with Sale. Sale for 4-5 innings then Lopez 2-3 innings.
 
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Club option on 26 is intriguing.

Sale surprisingly does not have too many miles on his arm.
 
Its a major IF but if this all works out we have our two aces at the top of the staff for another 3 years (3 for 2024).
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Wow, that's a lot of risk. Alex Anthopoulos, riverboat gambler.
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You really have to go all in on this 3-5 year window. One title is great but unless we get another it kind of feels like an underperformance.

Get that second one and AA is enshrined in baseball lore forever.
 
CJ9 said:
Deferred money is gone as well.
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Braves net $1m in 2024, before CBT elements are factored in; but the new AAV seems to make things pricier re this year’s CBT number (though better for 2025’s, assuming the option was picked up), which most likely ultimately negates any savings. Seems to be more straightforwardly about gaining another controllable year on the back-end.

Braves also seem allergic to deferred money—they never offer it, and the one guy who comes with some pre-loaded quickly has the deferred money negotiated away. Like No-Trade Clauses, seems to be against the organization’s preferences.
 
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GovClintonTyree said:
So he's taking $16M instead of $27.5M? He's already signed for 2024. That doesn't seem to jive.
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Red Sox already paid him his portion of 2024. Basically the Braves are taking the 500K they owed him in 2024 + the derred money they owed him and replacing that with a new contract.
 
jpx7 said:
Braves net $1m in 2024, before CBT elements are factored in; but the new AAV seems to things worse for this year (but better for 2025), so that likely negates any savings. Seems to be more straightforwardly about gaining another controllable year on the back-end.

Braves also seem allergic to deferred money—they never offer it, and the one guy who comes with some pre-loaded quickly has the deferred money negotiated away. Like No-Trade Clauses, seems to be against the organization’s preferences.
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JPX, How are you getting there? The Sox are paying us $17M this year. He's entitled to $17.5M this year, another $10M ($4.6M PV in '24 dollars) in 2039. So $17.5M + $4.6M = 22.1M in 2024. Why would he agree to $16M? Then a year at $22M, $2M more than his current '25 option now guaranteed, and the club option at $18M for '26.
 
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