Student loans

nsacpi said:
Not at all. When I think back to the classes in college that have most enriched my life they are the two classes I took in art history and music history. I double majored in math and economics, and benefited hugely from dabbling far outside those disciplines.

A couple summers ago I took an online class in the history of rock and roll. It was taught by a professor with a radical feminist Marxist perspective. It was one of the most fun things I've done (and educational). (And the experience was enhanced by the radical feminist Marxist perspective of the teacher). I never would have done something like that (or enjoyed it the way I did) if not for the interest in music history I developed while in college.
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You had those classes as part of valuable degrees. Theres nothing wrong with that. But the issue is majoring in worthwhile degrees. Someone majoring in art history and music history shouldnt be subsidized as much as degrees that lead to getting a real job. I dont care if someone wants to get a degree in feminist dance theory. I do care when they take tax money to get it then cant pay it back because there arent enough jobs in that field to pay it back. Especially if you are going to an expensive school. If you go to Harvard to get a worthless degree you are probably too dumb to be accepted into a top school to begin with. Its about as smart as tying an anchor to your leg and throwing it in a river and wondering why you are drowning.
 
thethe said:
That’s why they save on the actual labor costs and have a true at will employment whereby the minute you see any non preferred behavior you let them go. You are right to discuss the costs of employment but with a natural sifting function I think in the long run it will save organizations lots of money. Might make recruiters a lot less money as their only function would be for senior level positions then
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I think you’re wrong here. You’d spend significantly more on recruiting and mentorship but the tradeoff is higher performance if the theory is correct. Whenever we open up new positions we get flooded with online applications. You’d have to hire a lot more recruiters to do background checks and interview more candidates if you couldn’t rely on credentials to filter candidates.
 
chop2chip said:
I think you’re wrong here. You’d spend significantly more on recruiting and mentorship but the tradeoff is higher performance if the theory is correct. Whenever we open up new positions we get flooded with online applications. You’d have to hire a lot more recruiters to do background checks and interview more candidates if you couldn’t rely on credentials to filter candidates.
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A two week orientation would do most of the sifting IMO. Let the people show you what they are and employment at will will take care of the rest.

But I could see your argument as well being the reality.
 
cajunrevenge said:
You had those classes as part of valuable degrees. Theres nothing wrong with that. But the issue is majoring in worthwhile degrees. Someone majoring in art history and music history shouldnt be subsidized as much as degrees that lead to getting a real job. I dont care if someone wants to get a degree in feminist dance theory. I do care when they take tax money to get it then cant pay it back because there arent enough jobs in that field to pay it back. Especially if you are going to an expensive school. If you go to Harvard to get a worthless degree you are probably too dumb to be accepted into a top school to begin with. Its about as smart as tying an anchor to your leg and throwing it in a river and wondering why you are drowning.
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You'd be surprised at the number of Ivy League graduates who end up doing nothing. I mean nothing. As in they don't hold a job. Some of them are raising families so that is a worthwhile venture. But others are completely useless to society. So it is a thang. The solution I would propose is to cap the amount of financial aid. Cap it at a level that supports a good education at a solid university but doesn't extend to the extra costs of some of the gold-plated schools (and there are many) that are out there. There is a different issue at the other end of the spectrum where some fly-by-night operations need to be shut down or denied subsidies at the public trough.
 
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thethe said:
A two week orientation would do most of the sifting IMO. Let the people show you what they are and employment at will will take care of the rest.

But I could see your argument as well being the reality.
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Who determines who can join the orientation?

If you open it up to everyone and make it a meritocracy, the FAANG companies would have hundreds of thousands of people show up. You also need some 1x1 time with each candidate to evaluate soft skills.

I think internships are a good blend of both and the noncommittal nature of it should allow companies to take more risks.
 
chop2chip said:
Who determines who can join the orientation?

If you open it up to everyone and make it a meritocracy, the FAANG companies would have hundreds of thousands of people show up. You also need some 1x1 time with each candidate to evaluate soft skills.

I think internships are a good blend of both and the noncommittal nature of it should allow companies to take more risks.
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I think you could use high school GPAs and SAT scores the same way colleges do to filter out the ones who probably won’t make it. I get your point and it would be madness when originally instituted but over time a natural order of things will surface and become a very profitable way of hiring.
 
nsacpi said:
You'd be surprised at the number of Ivy League graduates who end up doing nothing. I mean nothing. As in they don't hold a job. Some of them are raising families so that is a worthwhile venture. But others are completely useless to society. So it is a thang. The solution I would propose is to cap the amount of financial aid. Cap it at a level that supports a good education at a solid university but doesn't extend to the extra costs of some of the gold-plated schools (and there are many) that are out there. There is a different issue at the other end of the spectrum where some fly-by-night operations need to be shut down or denied subsidies at the public trough.
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Based on what I see from Ivy league schools these days I am more suprised that any of them go on to anything meaningful. If what you say was true 30 years ago it would surprise me. As it stands now I think you need to be functionally retarded to get into and survive long enough at these schools to get a degree. Maybe its just the SJWs that stand out and theres actual intelligent people that go to these schools. I dont know.
 
chop2chip said:
Who determines who can join the orientation?

If you open it up to everyone and make it a meritocracy, the FAANG companies would have hundreds of thousands of people show up. You also need some 1x1 time with each candidate to evaluate soft skills.

I think internships are a good blend of both and the noncommittal nature of it should allow companies to take more risks.
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Large financial bank I work with has shifted to creating skill assessments in the pre interview phase.

1. Apply
2. Complete 90 min coding or financial analysis exercise successfully
3. Begin interview process

This has weeded out 90% of applicants either by them failing the assessment or them not bothering with it at all.

They accept they probably lose out on some superstars who have multiple options, but have substantially reduced the hiring time cycle and have elevated the floor of everyone they bring in
 
sturg33 said:
Large financial bank I work with has shifted to creating skill assessments in the pre interview phase.

1. Apply
2. Complete 90 min coding or financial analysis exercise successfully
3. Begin interview process

This has weeded out 90% of applicants either by them failing the assessment or them not bothering with it at all.

They accept they probably lose out on some superstars who have multiple options, but have substantially reduced the hiring time cycle and have elevated the floor of everyone they bring in
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Oh and they have dropped the degree requirement
 
sturg33 said:
Large financial bank I work with has shifted to creating skill assessments in the pre interview phase.

1. Apply
2. Complete 90 min coding or financial analysis exercise successfully
3. Begin interview process

This has weeded out 90% of applicants either by them failing the assessment or them not bothering with it at all.

They accept they probably lose out on some superstars who have multiple options, but have substantially reduced the hiring time cycle and have elevated the floor of everyone they bring in
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Interesting they just started doing this. I’ve only ever worked for companies that require a technical screening.
 
chop2chip said:
Interesting they just started doing this. I’ve only ever worked for companies that require a technical screening.
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Yeah they still do the technical during the interview process, but now they won't even have the recruiter call unless you pass the first assessment
 
sturg33 said:
Large financial bank I work with has shifted to creating skill assessments in the pre interview phase.

1. Apply
2. Complete 90 min coding or financial analysis exercise successfully
3. Begin interview process

This has weeded out 90% of applicants either by them failing the assessment or them not bothering with it at all.

They accept they probably lose out on some superstars who have multiple options, but have substantially reduced the hiring time cycle and have elevated the floor of everyone they bring in
Click to expand...

My idea is for less trained individuals. I think these skills should be part of a hybrid work and learning environment.
 
sturg33 said:
Yeah they still do the technical during the interview process, but now they won't even have the recruiter call unless you pass the first assessment
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Ah I see what you mean. Didn’t catch that initially. That’s a bit more radical than what I’m used to.
 
Has there been any national polls on student loan forgiveness since higher ed's, um, troubles, this past October? Curious whether there was any movement.
 
I’d forgotten cus more public money 💴 n funding public colleges and universities and subsidizing costs. Reasonable financial aid and loans could be obtained to attend those schools.

For private universities the loans would need to be privately funded but I would make them eligible for bankruptcy. It would be up to the lender to determine whether they were likely to recoup their investment.
 
Biden should call it a tax cut instead of student loan forgiveness. Through all the various taxes we pay they will inevitably pay their loans back through taxes. So just call it a tax cut. Then make Republicans argue against cutting taxes.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Biden should call it a tax cut instead of student loan forgiveness. Through all the various taxes we pay they will inevitably pay their loans back through taxes. So just call it a tax cut. Then make Republicans argue against cutting taxes.
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How is it a tax cut?
 
If you pay 100 dollars in taxes and they give you 100 dollars back is that giving you money or just giving you your tax money back? All these people will inevitably pay more in taxes over their lifetime than the loaned amount.
 
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