TLHLIM

nsacpi said:
And there is Lost Cause historiography. Whose malign influence continues to poison large parts of the country.
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Please tell me that you're one of those who bought the story that the President who said he had no intention of ending slavery, and who wanted to ship blacks to other continents, the guy who 2 years into a war "freed" the slaves in states he had no control over but not in the Union states, please tell me you buy the lie that he invaded the Confederacy to end slavery. I know people, especially academics, say it, but for you to actually believe it would be so on brand as to be serendipitous.
 
Jaw said:
Please tell me that you're one of those who bought the story that the President who said he had no intention of ending slavery, and who wanted to ship blacks to other continents, the guy who 2 years into a war "freed" the slaves in states he had no control over but not in the Union states, please tell me you buy the lie that he invaded the Confederacy to end slavery. I know people, especially academics, say it, but for you to actually believe it would be so on brand as to be serendipitous.
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Fortunately, society has made and continues to make progress in discarding such retrograde views. I know that's tough.
 
I have to be honest, even with the Epstein stuff, I would take him as President right now.

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Jaw said:
I have to be honest, even with the Epstein stuff, I would take him as President right now.

[TW]1761861583779643479[/TW]
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His policies today wouldn't resemble who he was in the 90's though. I'd definitely take the politician/policy set he represented in the 90's though today.
 
Eh. I know it can be disheartening when the cultural tide goes in a direction y'all don't like. No one has to approve. But the Amish (and others) have shown how they can be true to their beliefs and folkways without trying to impose them on others. And society can and should in turn work to accommodate those beliefs and folkways.
 
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nsacpi said:
Eh. I know it can be disheartening when the cultural tide goes in a direction y'all don't like. No one has to approve. But the Amish have shown how they can be true to their beliefs without trying to impose them on others.
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I'm sure you'll be just 'disheartened' when 70% of the country cheers on the deportation forces.
 
Jaw said:
Please tell me that you're one of those who bought the story that the President who said he had no intention of ending slavery, and who wanted to ship blacks to other continents, the guy who 2 years into a war "freed" the slaves in states he had no control over but not in the Union states, please tell me you buy the lie that he invaded the Confederacy to end slavery. I know people, especially academics, say it, but for you to actually believe it would be so on brand as to be serendipitous.
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Yeah this is stupid. Lincoln was an abolitionist just wasn't a major tentpole of his campaign as he knew it was a big thing (didn't matter because traitor states wound up cededing anyway because of their states right to own slaves)


Ship blacks to other continents is liberia, which was a failure.

To try and denigrate lincoln, because he wasn't a saint is foolish, and just a butthurt loser southern thing to do. You lost the war, get over it.
 
zitothebrave said:
Yeah this is stupid. Lincoln was an abolitionist just wasn't a major tentpole of his campaign as he knew it was a big thing (didn't matter because traitor states wound up cededing anyway because of their states right to own slaves)


Ship blacks to other continents is liberia, which was a failure.

To try and denigrate lincoln, because he wasn't a saint is foolish, and just a butthurt loser southern thing to do. You lost the war, get over it.
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You should educate yourself further so you don't look silly when you jump into conversations like this. Lincoln was never an abolitionist until Southern diplomats appeared to make headway with England. The very next month, Abe "freed" the slaves where he had no power, while those north of Richmond remained in chains.

Africa is one of the continents he advocated sending blacks to. Not the only one. He was pretty straightforward about his belief that blacks and whites couldn't live together.

And I wasn't in the war, so not sure how I lost it. I had some ancestors in it, but they all wore blue (that means they fought for the North.)

If this is a topic you genuinely want to discuss there are still some sources of information out there that you can learn from, for now. I'll give you a push in the right direction - take Honest Abe at his word that he didn't care about ending slavery. Then treat him as having the same motivations as today's politicians, and then look into how the first shots came to be fired at Fort Sumter.

Or just believe the winners that wrote the history books when they tell you how pure they were.
 
zitothebrave said:
Yeah this is stupid. Lincoln was an abolitionist just wasn't a major tentpole of his campaign as he knew it was a big thing (didn't matter because traitor states wound up cededing anyway because of their states right to own slaves)


Ship blacks to other continents is liberia, which was a failure.

To try and denigrate lincoln, because he wasn't a saint is foolish, and just a butthurt loser southern thing to do. You lost the war, get over it.
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The last paragraph shows the epitome of ignorance. Pretty embarassing

No one cares who won or lost- we weren’t there. It couldn’t matter less.
 
I guess it is a scandal that Lincoln was a practical politician who wielded power with great skill and stubborn determination in order to win. A shocking thang indeed.

Equally interesting is that some of y'all think its news to anyone that the Emancipation Proclamation was part of his plan to win the war. Or that there is something scandalous about that fact.

Lincoln was not a saint. What he was very tough, very persistent and very stubborn. Why any of that would be news or surprising to anyone baffles me.
 
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