Trump vs Harris debate

thethe said:
What about those that have jobs and want better ones? Do they count?
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Sure. In those cases, if you hire local residences within an economic empowerment zone (which Springfield, OH is) then you can also claim this one-time tax credit. So as long as these companies are hiring local Springfield residences, they qualify.

As an aside, this is a very worthwhile conversation thethe (unlike pet eater discourse). If you have a policy proposal that makes it more beneficial to hire local residents, I could be convinced.
 
nsacpi said:
What benefits. There is the modest payment that their sponsors receive to help them get settled. That's about it. Some states kick in a little bit more. But there is very little that is provided specifically to immigrants.

They do remarkably well considering the linguistic and cultural disadvantages. And their children do amazingly well.

Beyond taxes, immigrants and their children contribute disproportionately on all sorts of metrics, including entrepreneurship (rates of starting a new businesses) and R&D (patents and advanced degrees in STEM fields, prestigious scientific awards). They help make America great.
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You are again conflating traditional legal immigration with what we are seeing now.

I understand why you you have to do this because if you segregate the population your conclusions would be vastly different.
 
chop2chip said:
Sure. In those cases, if you hire local residences within an economic empowerment zone (which Springfield, OH is) then you can also claim this one-time tax credit. So as long as these companies are hiring local Springfield residences, they qualify.

As an aside, this is a very worthwhile conversation thethe (unlike pet eater discourse). If you have a policy proposal that makes it more beneficial to hire local residents, I could be convinced.
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I don't care about 'local'. I care about 'American' and am completely against any non-citizen receiving 1 federal/state/local dollar of assistance when so much of our country is suffering. That includes via grants to 'non-profits'.

Once we stop subsidizing illegal migration it will stop naturally. Let hte country reset and when shortfalls in employment pop up you can supplement over time with an orderly immigraiton system.
 
thethe said:
I don't care about 'local'. I care about 'American' and am completely against any non-citizen receiving 1 federal dollar of assistance when so much of our country is suffering.
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Well I’m not a big social safety net kinda guy so you won’t get much of a debate out of me.

Question for you - how many manufacturing jobs will Trump create in his next term and who is going to fill them?
 
chop2chip said:
Well I’m not a big social safety net kinda guy so you won’t get much of a debate out of me.

Question for you - how many manufacturing jobs will Trump create in his next term and who is going to fill them?
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I have no clue how to project those numbers but if you impede the drugs coming in from the southern border and have plants incentivized to hire Americans (via tariffs) I'd expect both of those to be great numbers.
 
There is no big social safety net for immigrants. That's entirely a myth. The only social safety net is their willingness to work their butts off. That does seem to rub some people (ironically often the folks who preach the values of self-sufficiency and hard work) the wrong way.
 
nsacpi said:
There is no big social safety net for immigrants. That's entirely a myth. The only social safety net is their willingness to work their butts off. That does seem to rub some people (ironically often the folks who preach the values of self-sufficiency and hard work) the wrong way.
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Again - intentional conflation because the truth about illegal inmigration is damaging.

But you continue on and be wrong.
 
thethe said:
Again - intentional conflation because the truth about illegal inmigration is damaging.

But you continue on and be wrong.
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I'm not wrong. Even poorly educated people from ****hole countries end up doing very well here. And their children are the rock stars that make America great.

It is a well-researched topic.

https://www.amazon.com/Streets-Gold-Americas-Immigrant-Success/dp/1541797833

Money quote: Children of immigrants from nearly every country, especially those of poor immigrants, do better economically than children of U.S.-born residents – a pattern that has held for more than a century.

Why would we want to turn off a faucet that has enriched this country immeasurably.

Companies like Nvidia, Microsoft, Google and Apple were either founded by immigrants or the children of immigrants or currently have CEOs who are immigrants. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

The authors of the paper that is foundational to recent advances in AI are all immigrants or first generation.
 
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nsacpi said:
I'm not wrong. Even poorly educated people from ****hole countries end up doing very well here. And their children are the rock stars that make America great.

It is a well-researched topic.

https://www.amazon.com/Streets-Gold-Americas-Immigrant-Success/dp/1541797833

Money quote: Children of immigrants from nearly every country, especially those of poor immigrants, do better economically than children of U.S.-born residents – a pattern that has held for more than a century.
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Ok now break it up between legal and illegal immigrants.
 
BLs whole justification for unfettered migration are the 5000 legal immigrants, or their children, working in tech.
 
thethe said:
Ok now break it up between legal and illegal immigrants.
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It has been done. The dirty little secret is America benefits from illegal immigrants.

I'll just offer an anecdote (but the data is much more than annecdotal): A few years ago I worked with a woman from India. She told me she and her husband came to this country illegally. Both their children are now medical doctors.
 
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thethe said:
He did
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Manufacturing jobs went down under Trump. Even if we take the high point number of manufacturing jobs its only a 3.77% increase. If 3.77% is brining manufacturing jobs back then what was it when Obama increased manufacturing jobs by 9% over his term after the 2008 financial collapse.
 
nsacpi said:
It has been done. The dirty little secret is America benefits from illegal immigrants.

I'll just offer an anecdote (but the data is much more than annecdotal): A few years ago I worked with a woman from India. She told me she and her husband came to this country illegally. Both their children are now medical doctors.
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If that was true blue states wouldn't be whining about the influx.

I don't know any study that backs that up besides the CBO.
 
Garmel said:
If that was true blue states wouldn't be whining about the influx.

I don't know any study that backs that up besides the CBO.
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I can't tell you why people whine and don't whine. I leave that to the shrinks. I can only share the data and analysis I've seen.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Manufacturing jobs went down under Trump. Even if we take the high point number of manufacturing jobs its only a 3.77% increase. If 3.77% is brining manufacturing jobs back then what was it when Obama increased manufacturing jobs by 9% over his term after the 2008 financial collapse.
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After a collapse meaning the same jobs that existed prior.
 
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