Offseason Hot Stove 2024-25 Thread

Enscheff said:
We have reached the point in the offseason where some fans are trying to justify the roster. False equivalencies like “the Braves pitchers aren’t reeeeally any more risky than all other pitchers”, and “repairing an elbow twice isn’t reeeeeally as bad now that someone told me they are using a brace” are very typical comments at this time of peak optimism. Pair those comments with tried and true delusional comments about how some fringe prospect is quality depth and we have the perfect homer conversation going on right now.

People claiming Sale isn’t a massive injury risk after seeing him miss October is the funniest part though.

Anywho…if Acuna, Strider and Sale can be babied into October this team has a strong puncher’s chance to win it all.
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How is AA supposed to improve the team when all our prospects wont amount to **** according to people here and bench players refuse to sign with us because Snit wont play them. The White Sox wanted players to help them now. The Padres want players to help them now. Yet the only prospects people here dont **** on are the ones who havent hit the majors yet and busted their prospect virginity without setting the league on fire. Without the bottomless payrolls of the MLBs chosen teams we are never going to field a roster of all stars and pitchers who arent injury risks. If they pitch they are an injury risk. Show me a SP with 6 straight 200 IP seasons and I consider them an injury risk just for being due for injury. If our pitching staff is so bad what team has a better one? The Tokyo Dodgers. Sure. Now who?
 
cajunrevenge said:
How is AA supposed to improve the team when all our prospects wont amount to **** according to people here and bench players refuse to sign with us because Snit wont play them. The White Sox wanted players to help them now. The Padres want players to help them now. Yet the only prospects people here dont **** on are the ones who havent hit the majors yet and busted their prospect virginity without setting the league on fire. Without the bottomless payrolls of the MLBs chosen teams we are never going to field a roster of all stars and pitchers who arent injury risks. If they pitch they are an injury risk. Show me a SP with 6 straight 200 IP seasons and I consider them an injury risk just for being due for injury. If our pitching staff is so bad what team has a better one? The Tokyo Dodgers. Sure. Now who?
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Right now I think the Dodgers, Phillies, and Diamondbacks in the NL have objectively better rotations on paper given health risks and overall depth. The Braves have as much talent in the rotation as anyone but the potential variance in outcomes for them seems wider than these other contenders. So that’s why some of us are disappointed the Braves haven’t spent money or trade capital to bring in quality veteran depth in the rotation or at least the bullpen yet. Pitching wins in October and pitching depth gets you to October and this roster has a lot more questions about the pitching staff than you would like for a World Series contender.
 
cajunrevenge said:
How is AA supposed to improve the team when all our prospects wont amount to **** according to people here and bench players refuse to sign with us because Snit wont play them. The White Sox wanted players to help them now. The Padres want players to help them now. Yet the only prospects people here dont **** on are the ones who havent hit the majors yet and busted their prospect virginity without setting the league on fire. Without the bottomless payrolls of the MLBs chosen teams we are never going to field a roster of all stars and pitchers who arent injury risks. If they pitch they are an injury risk. Show me a SP with 6 straight 200 IP seasons and I consider them an injury risk just for being due for injury. If our pitching staff is so bad what team has a better one? The Tokyo Dodgers. Sure. Now who?
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Strider and sale could be the top 2 starters
 
Seriously…it’s ok to say AA had a terrible offseason. No…really…it’s ok.

It doesn’t mean you hate AA. It doesn’t mean you want AA fired. It doesn’t mean you hate the Braves. It doesn’t mean you love the Dodgers or Mets or Phillies or Padres. It doesn’t mean you want Strider’s elbow to explode. It doesn’t mean you want Acuna’s knee to explode. It doesn’t mean you want Sale’s back to explode. It doesn’t mean you want the Braves to miss the playoffs.

Really…it’s ok to say it was bad.

All it means is that AA had one single bad offseason. He had a plan, and failed to execute that plan. It’s ok to state it…people who are great at their jobs sometimes have a bad couple months. Nobody has to be an apologist for the bad offseason and mansplain why it really wasn’t actually that bad, or make up a list of excuses.

It’s ok…it happens. If the worst offseason of AA’s career with the Braves still results in a Top 3-5 roster that’s testament to how good he’s been up to this one very poor offseason.

So it’s ok…really…stop bending over backwards trying to defend the offseason. It was terrible.
 
Enscheff said:
Seriously…it’s ok to say AA had a terrible offseason. No…really…it’s ok.

It doesn’t mean you hate AA. It doesn’t mean you want AA fired. It doesn’t mean you hate the Braves. It doesn’t mean you love the Dodgers or Mets or Phillies or Padres. It doesn’t mean you want Strider’s elbow to explode. It doesn’t mean you want Acuna’s knee to explode. It doesn’t mean you want Sale’s back to explode. It doesn’t mean you want the Braves to miss the playoffs.

Really…it’s ok to say it was bad.

All it means is that AA had one single bad offseason. He had a plan, and failed to execute that plan. It’s ok to state it…people who are great at their jobs sometimes have a bad couple months. Nobody has to be an apologist for the bad offseason and mansplain why it really wasn’t actually that bad, or make up a list of excuses.

It’s ok…it happens. If the worst offseason of AA’s career with the Braves still results in a Top 3-5 roster that’s testament to how good he’s been up to this one very poor offseason.

So it’s ok…really…stop bending over backwards trying to defend the offseason. It was terrible.
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No one gets it right 100% of the time. Even the GMs of teams with the ability to have billion dollar payrolls and defer money until the next millenium.

With you 100%. The sky isn't falling, but no need to pretend everything went according to plan.
 
I think people are really underrating Grant Holmes as a SP. He was a SP until 2021. He was moved to the pen because his control of his pitches was bad. That weakness has improved by leaps and bounds since joining the Braves. He is cheap as can be for years to come. I bet he has a better year in the rotation than several people some wanted to sign.
 
A quick glance at Holmes statcast charts shows an average FA, and below average SL and CU movement. His chase rate is high, which likely contributed to his low walk rates and high whiff rates.

Do we really think a guy with below average movement on breaking balls will sustain a high chase rate once batters have seen him a couple times?
 
Enscheff said:
Seriously…it’s ok to say AA had a terrible offseason. No…really…it’s ok.

It doesn’t mean you hate AA. It doesn’t mean you want AA fired. It doesn’t mean you hate the Braves. It doesn’t mean you love the Dodgers or Mets or Phillies or Padres. It doesn’t mean you want Strider’s elbow to explode. It doesn’t mean you want Acuna’s knee to explode. It doesn’t mean you want Sale’s back to explode. It doesn’t mean you want the Braves to miss the playoffs.

Really…it’s ok to say it was bad.

All it means is that AA had one single bad offseason. He had a plan, and failed to execute that plan. It’s ok to state it…people who are great at their jobs sometimes have a bad couple months. Nobody has to be an apologist for the bad offseason and mansplain why it really wasn’t actually that bad, or make up a list of excuses.

It’s ok…it happens. If the worst offseason of AA’s career with the Braves still results in a Top 3-5 roster that’s testament to how good he’s been up to this one very poor offseason.

So it’s ok…really…stop bending over backwards trying to defend the offseason. It was terrible.
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Let the results decide how good the offseason was. I want him making good deals not deals out of desperation. AA put us in the position that we dont need to do something stupid for the rotation or pen.
 
Congratulations, you’ve just moved to the part of the offseason where fans decide to “just see what happens”, as if process can’t be judged before results that are largely random.

This roster had holes that were well understood. They were not addressed.
 
Enscheff said:
A quick glance at Holmes statcast charts shows an average FA, and below average SL and CU movement. His chase rate is high, which likely contributed to his low walk rates and high whiff rates.

Do we really think a guy with below average movement on breaking balls will sustain a high chase rate once batters have seen him a couple times?
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There's a reason he's fixing to be 29 and has bounced around. I'm fine with Holmes in the BP and a spot starter here and there but to be Morton's replacement basically won't cut it. Time will tell.
 
Holmes and Anderson have value and I’m fine trying to find 26-man spots for them since they’re out of options. They might be pleasant surprises but that’s the issue — it’s gonna be considered surprising if one or both are major contributors for a full 162 whereas Fried and Morton and Jimenez could reasonably be expected to be who they always were for 162. Championship contenders always have some unproven players or injury gambles on the roster but the best teams take their gambles on 5th/6th starters and middle relievers.

If you want to be generous and exclude Sale and Lopez from the injury gambles list, every other current starting pitcher on the roster is unproven (hasn’t started a full MLB season) or returning from injury and we have one reliever who’s been a high leverage setup option for a full season and he faded late last season. I’m hopeful that enough unproven arms pitch up to their potential that our staff is as good as last year’s. But I’m also disappointed we have to rely on wishing and hoping after we started the offseason creating payroll flexibility we have yet to use.
 
Hudson2 said:
There's a reason he's fixing to be 29 and has bounced around. I'm fine with Holmes in the BP and a spot starter here and there but to be Morton's replacement basically won't cut it. Time will tell.
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Personally, I like the decision to let Morton walk and go with Holmes + 14m to spend elsewhere. Your point is well-taken that it's a gamble, but that particular gamble is one that I'd take.

On the whole though, I worry about the sheer number of gambles we're making . . . Holmes + Anderson as reliable starters, Perdomo + Pilar as reliable middle relief, Daysbel as high-leverage relief. I mean that's 5 spots on a 13-man pitching staff. Sure, we have money for contingencies, but I'd feel a lot better if we had a bird-in-hand right now to take some of this risk off the table.

Maybe we'll make a move or two before opening day and it'll be water under the bridge. Until that happens though, I can't help but be worried.
 
Hudson2 said:
There's a reason he's fixing to be 29 and has bounced around. I'm fine with Holmes in the BP and a spot starter here and there but to be Morton's replacement basically won't cut it. Time will tell.
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There's also a reason he isn't getting shelled in AA anymore. He didn't have good coaching.
 
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