Why not extremism?

weso1

weso1

<B>Clique Leader</B>
The most consistent theme I hear among moderate conservative and moderate liberals is that the empire can't last. The great US empire will fail in the end and it's inevitable. So my argument is that moderate politics is perceived as doomed to fail based on the beliefs of those who are most moderate. So what is the point of moderation? We're inevitably moving toward our end. So why not take a chance on far left or far right? Liberertarianism vs socialism. I'm not against the idea that socialism can't work, I personally believe that we need a mostly robotic country for it to work. If you have robots doing all the non creative work, then why can't socialism be successful? On the other end of the spectrum, why can't libertarianism work? Sure, there might be people left behind, but when in the history of the world have there ever not been people left behind?

And then I ask myself, are we just doomed because of human characteristics no matter what we believe.
 
We're doomed because of corruption in the system. I don't think the extremes are the problem right now cause usually the extremes (like Paul or Kucinich) are some of the only ones not in the pocked of the uber rich.
 
zitothebrave said:
We're doomed because of corruption in the system. I don't think the extremes are the problem right now cause usually the extremes (like Paul or Kucinich) are some of the only ones not in the pocked of the uber rich.
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I'm not arguing that extremes are the problem. I'm arguing that extremes are the solution.
 
You've been extremely open-minded recently with the global warming, political stance changes, and now this thread.

I fear you might be on your way to becoming left of center. Or maybe you realized the Tea Party right now is having a huge negative effect on the conservative movement/Republican Party.
 
KeithLockhart said:
You've been extremely open-minded recently with the global warming, political stance changes, and now this thread.

I fear you might be on your way to becoming left of center. Or maybe you realized the Tea Party right now is having a huge negative effect on the conservative movement/Republican Party.
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I've changed my stance on many issues, but ironically global warming isn't one of them, I think those on this board have assumed I accept a certain position because I identify myself as conservative.

I actually love the TEA party and think they are everything that is right about this country. Even if you disagree with their ideas I love the fact that they protest peacefully and with strong ideals. I think the attack on the TEA party is unfair and immature for the most part. There's a legit grump about some of their complaints and in the end I think you would find that most TEA party folk are reasonable.

The biggest thing I've learned as I've aged and have struggled to completely understand, is the ability to think like a scientist. This is an admitted struggle for me.

Have I become more liberal? I really don't think so. I think I've become more honest and more fair, and the irony of this is that I'm not sure this has actually changed my political stance.
 
And by the way, in my experience as a human being I've found liberals to be just as closed minded as conservatives if not even more so and if someone doesn't recognize that then I think they are either too young to understand it due to lack of experience or are just complete homers, or they enjoy run on sentences.
 
Sav, you're pretty f'ing extreme yourself. You don't hold your party accountable for anything and can't say one nice thing about the other guys. Seems like you post daily threads in here just to attack conservatives.

I admit I'm far right. Probably the most far right person on this board. Do you admit that you're pretty far down the line on the left?
 
Krgrecw said:
Sav, you're pretty f'ing extreme yourself. You don't hold your party accountable for anything and can't say one nice thing about the other guys. Seems like you post daily threads in here just to attack conservatives.

I admit I'm far right. Probably the most far right person on this board. Do you admit that you're pretty far down the line on the left?
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Fun Fact: I haven't made a thread in here since April 4th... the Mississippi thread. And it was well deserved for that state. It ranks near the worst in literacy, education, aptitude, economics, biggest welfare moocher in the Union... and they go out of their way to pass a discrimination bill.

I'm not far left. Your party has just become so far to the right that it looks like I'm far left. Thankfully some on the right woke up to Sarah Palin's game of stirring up trouble for her own political gain.

I'm against communism. Moderate socialism/social programs have helped this country become a great country. Social Security and Medicare are socialism, just like bloated military spending is government socialism and stimulus.

I would die for this country just as I suspect you would as well. I will not however not fight for it if I think the cause is unjustifiable.

I do hold my party accountable for things, such as not having the balls to stand up to Republican obstructionism... and not doing more to put the extremely rich and wealthy on a shorter leash. In short, I believe everyone has the right to pursue wealth and money... but growing up in a lower-middle class family I see the rich getting away with everything. Doesn't matter if they're taxed "more", they aren't "struggling". Still ordering multiple private jets, buying 15 million dollar mansions, CEO's are still making 475 x as much more than their average employee. Workers are getting laid off and jobs are being cut because the CEO has to earn that extra bonus and make the shareholders happy. My brother runs a kitchen, upstairs won't give him a dishwasher, nor 2 more employees... so he does the job of 3 other people while not getting any extra compensation, PLUS the director told him to not get overtime. So he clocks out, continues to work so the ship doesn't sink, and still doesn't complain much even though he comes home and is stressed out physically and mentally. All because his boss, and his boss's boss get a nice hefty bonus for keeping labor costs low. If you think that's OK and that there's NOTHING wrong with that, I don't want to live in the same America you want to.

I've worked for extremely wealthy and extremely rich people, It inspires me to maximize my income potential as well, but at the same time I acknowledge greed when I see it.

Greed is destroying this country, not government moochers and welfare recipients.
 
I guess the question is, do we want to rush to end of the empire or do we want to make it last as long as we can
 
weso1 said:
The most consistent theme I hear among moderate conservative and moderate liberals is that the empire can't last. The great US empire will fail in the end and it's inevitable. So my argument is that moderate politics is perceived as doomed to fail based on the beliefs of those who are most moderate. So what is the point of moderation? We're inevitably moving toward our end. So why not take a chance on far left or far right? Liberertarianism vs socialism. I'm not against the idea that socialism can't work, I personally believe that we need a mostly robotic country for it to work. If you have robots doing all the non creative work, then why can't socialism be successful? On the other end of the spectrum, why can't libertarianism work? Sure, there might be people left behind, but when in the history of the world have there ever not been people left behind?

And then I ask myself, are we just doomed because of human characteristics no matter what we believe.
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Either extreme fails (as do views in between) because they underestimate human stupidity and depravity. Imho.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Fun Fact: I haven't made a thread in here since April 4th... the Mississippi thread. And it was well deserved for that state. It ranks near the worst in literacy, education, aptitude, economics, biggest welfare moocher in the Union... and they go out of their way to pass a discrimination bill.

I'm not far left. Your party has just become so far to the right that it looks like I'm far left. Thankfully some on the right woke up to Sarah Palin's game of stirring up trouble for her own political gain.
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Too be honest, there are not many Conservatives that do like Palin, maybe 1 and that is pushing it. But Weso is right, you label and dump people as Tea Party members if they like one thing of what they are proposing or if they against your Liberal (Democrat) worshipping. I agree with some things you say, like I agree with Weso and K-Grecw, Bedell ie on what they say but I will not be a caricature of you all's petty squabble over parties.

I don't like their party but in reality I don't like any party, because they all have warts, bad ones. I go with what I like and if i don't like you, that is what it is, be it Dumm, Repuke, Anarchy (Liber.) it doesn't matter to me.
 
KeithLockhart said:
]I do hold my party accountable for things, such as not having the balls to stand up to Republican obstructionism.[/B].. and not doing more to put the extremely rich and wealthy on a shorter leash. In short, I believe everyone has the right to pursue wealth and money... but growing up in a lower-middle class family I see the rich getting away with everything. Doesn't matter if they're taxed "more", they aren't "struggling". Still ordering multiple private jets, buying 15 million dollar mansions, CEO's are still making 475 x as much more than their average employee. Workers are getting laid off and jobs are being cut because the CEO has to earn that extra bonus and make the shareholders happy. My brother runs a kitchen, upstairs won't give him a dishwasher, nor 2 more employees... so he does the job of 3 other people while not getting any extra compensation, PLUS the director told him to not get overtime. So he clocks out, continues to work so the ship doesn't sink, and still doesn't complain much even though he comes home and is stressed out physically and mentally. All because his boss, and his boss's boss get a nice hefty bonus for keeping labor costs low. If you think that's OK and that there's NOTHING wrong with that, I don't want to live in the same America you want to.

I've worked for extremely wealthy and extremely rich people, It inspires me to maximize my income potential as well, but at the same time I acknowledge greed when I see it.

Greed is destroying this country, not government moochers and welfare recipients.
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BWAHAHHAAHHAAHHAHAAHAHAHA!!! You've just made yourself an extreme with this comment....attack the Republicans. The Dems are getting just as rich as the Republicans on many things they just know how to hide it better. Don't you think the Democrat party policies is just for us low people, no, they are lining their pockets as much as the Republicans?
 
AerchAngel said:
Too be honest, there are not many Conservatives that do like Palin, maybe 1 and that is pushing it. But Weso is right, you label and dump people as Tea Party members if they like one thing of what they are proposing or if they against your Liberal (Democrat) worshipping. I agree with some things you say, like I agree with Weso and K-Grecw, Bedell ie on what they say but I will not be a caricature of you all's petty squabble over parties.

I don't like their party but in reality I don't like any party, because they all have warts, bad ones. I go with what I like and if i don't like you, that is what it is, be it Dumm, Repuke, Anarchy (Liber.) it doesn't matter to me.
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It's only fair.

Those on the right label all liberals and socialists and communists.

To believe in communism means everyone no matter what job gets almost the same income. Liberals/Progressive/Socialists whatever just believe government has a role in making sure the playing field is even... and that a single few don't control most of the wealth. Zito had a good graphic in the Affordable Care thread, showing when the last time the top .01% of people owned that much of the wealth in the country... twas the end of the roaring 20's.

Why isn't it fair to label Republicans with Tea Party since most of you don't speak out to their extremes? If not many conservatives liked Palin, she wouldn't be on Fox News so much... she = ratings.
 
AerchAngel said:
BWAHAHHAAHHAAHHAHAAHAHAHA!!! You've just made yourself an extreme with this comment....attack the Republicans. The Dems are getting just as rich as the Republicans on many things they just know how to hide it better. Don't you think the Democrat party policies is just for us low people, no, they are lining their pockets as much as the Republicans?
Click to expand...

While there is truth to your comments, which was the party that wanted to let the Bush Tax Cuts expire to Clinton levels, and which party was the one that fought to keep it status quo?
 
KeithLockhart said:
While there is truth to your comments, which was the party that wanted to let the Bush Tax Cuts expire to Clinton levels, and which party was the one that fought to keep it status quo?
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They are greedy, always have said that. I hate the Republican party because they worship greed (outsourcing is the number one evil in our country, it takes jobs away from those who need them), but I do like the social make-up of the party in regards to religion (without it, there were not be as many donations to help the poor and sick). I hate the Democrat party because they refuse to take any ownership of their failures and allowing moochers to bilk those who pay for their laziness. I am a person who values honesty and ownership of decisions you'd made, be it right or wrong, you own up to them. Making excuses makes me absolutely sick.

So I do agree with you sometimes, but don't come in here and tell us you don't like your party because they don't stand up to another party, if they switch places, it would be no difference in the obstruction.

As Chris Carter says "Come on man!".
 
KeithLockhart said:
It's only fair.

Those on the right label all liberals and socialists and communists.

To believe in communism means everyone no matter what job gets almost the same income. Liberals/Progressive/Socialists whatever just believe government has a role in making sure the playing field is even... and that a single few don't control most of the wealth. Zito had a good graphic in the Affordable Care thread, showing when the last time the top .01% of people owned that much of the wealth in the country... twas the end of the roaring 20's.

Why isn't it fair to label Republicans with Tea Party since most of you don't speak out to their extremes? If not many conservatives liked Palin, she wouldn't be on Fox News so much... she = ratings.
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Because any sane Republican or Conservative for that matter shouldn't be watching Fox News. I know most on this board don't and don't gives a rat's ass about talk radio either.

Again, you say we, well not me since I rode Palin like the skank she is since she first open her trap. I thought Obama is/was a circus clown, but she is by far worse than he is. When she talks, it is a bonafide circus. You guys eat her up like she is clam chowder be it good or bad and then dump people in the same crowd. News Flash some Conversatives and especially ones here do not and I repeat do not like her. If they stood up for her, it would asinine. She is just a talking piece for some obscure party that makes you shake your head.

What extremes do the Tea Party speaks about or better yet enacted? I can't think of a single one that is a law in our country brought in by them. Abortion and g-ay marriage has been talked about for decades so take those two off the table and came in way before this Tea Party.
 
Most if not all of the conservatives on here have a higher intellectual capacity than the "average joe" in "the heartland".

I don't think any of you would've made a comment such as "meteorologists should stop studying meteors".
 
KeithLockhart said:
Most if not all of the conservatives on here have a higher intellectual capacity than the "average joe" in "the heartland".

I don't think any of you would've made a comment such as "meteorologists should stop studying meteors".
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LMAO!!!

oh my, who said that?
 
LOL at Sav. You are the exact same at the folks you are constantly bashing, just on the other side.

And it seems to me that you know what's on Fox news moreso than anyone here. You're always talking about it. Are you a regular viewer?
 
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