I don’t tend to join that tribe in calling for those rights to be taken away, so also spare me the whataboutism. You’re making a dumb fuck, reactionary suggestion and it’s pathetic. The least you can do is own up to it like a man.
TLHLIM
- Thread starter sturg33
- Start date
That’s like saying non-trans people are insane and proving to be so by doing all of the other mass shootings that happen on a near-daily basis. You’re using zero logic in this argument and you should know it. The fact that I can count how many mass shootings were done by a trans person is sufficient enough evidence for me to feel justified in calling the suggestion to institutionalize them all for public safety to be complete and utter horseshit. And from the slippery slope/COVID tyranny guy.
We’re very clearly dealing with rate statistics that are too low to be of any use when it comes to public policy governing the rights of the whole group. Throw whatever numbers you can find against the wall if you wish, your argument is still bad, and you’re abandoning your own stated principles to make it.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Looking at the data it is very clear that immigrants and their children are much better off NOT completely assimilating. Otherwise, they would not be able to achieve the extraordinary things that they have:
1) As of 2025, 46% of Fortune 500 companies were founded by immigrants or their children—109 by immigrants, and 122 by children of immigrants. These firms generated $8.6 trillion in revenue and employed over 15.4 million people. There would be no NVIDIA or Google without immigrants. Think about that.
2) Immigrants are about 80% more likely than native-born Americans to start businesses. Immigrants are job creators. With many native-born Americans working for their businesses. No flowers or thank you notes expected.
3) Sociological studies (e.g., by Rubén Rumbaut, Min Zhou, Jennifer Lee) show that second-generation immigrant children often outperform their peers educationally, especially in selective college attendance and professional careers. They are strongly overrepresented in medicine, engineering, and academia.
The United States would be a third world country (with bad food) if we fully assimilated. Most of the scientists who built the bomb were immigrants and children of immigrants. Y'all better remember that.
We know better than to adopt some of the highly problematic aspects of American culture. From teaching American college students, I find that a certain proportion (virtually all male) think they can get by without making any sort of effort. I have yet to meet an immigrant student with a similar mindset. I've come to view it as an important part of my mission to disabuse those American students of this belief.
Why would we want to fully assimilate when our children do so much better than the children of fully-assimilated Americans? I don't expect an answer.
1) As of 2025, 46% of Fortune 500 companies were founded by immigrants or their children—109 by immigrants, and 122 by children of immigrants. These firms generated $8.6 trillion in revenue and employed over 15.4 million people. There would be no NVIDIA or Google without immigrants. Think about that.
2) Immigrants are about 80% more likely than native-born Americans to start businesses. Immigrants are job creators. With many native-born Americans working for their businesses. No flowers or thank you notes expected.
3) Sociological studies (e.g., by Rubén Rumbaut, Min Zhou, Jennifer Lee) show that second-generation immigrant children often outperform their peers educationally, especially in selective college attendance and professional careers. They are strongly overrepresented in medicine, engineering, and academia.
The United States would be a third world country (with bad food) if we fully assimilated. Most of the scientists who built the bomb were immigrants and children of immigrants. Y'all better remember that.
We know better than to adopt some of the highly problematic aspects of American culture. From teaching American college students, I find that a certain proportion (virtually all male) think they can get by without making any sort of effort. I have yet to meet an immigrant student with a similar mindset. I've come to view it as an important part of my mission to disabuse those American students of this belief.
Why would we want to fully assimilate when our children do so much better than the children of fully-assimilated Americans? I don't expect an answer.
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For what it’s worth, there *are* arguments to be made that the increased rate is not due to any qualities of the trans folk, but rather the societal conditions in which they live where they are more likely to be bullied/denied access/legislated against, but I’m not interested in excusing the violence of any person and won’t lend it that credence as a result. But if you’re going to question whether we should accommodate their delusions, it’s absolutely worth noting that the argument absolutely cuts both ways. The bigger issue remains that you’re using a handful of isolated incidents and extrapolating it across an entire population in a way that is dumb.
Tapate50
Well-known member
This line of thinking is wild.
It is never the segments of the populations fault, its society, MAN
No, I’m firmly in the “there isn’t a fucking trans mass murder problem, there’s just a mass murder problem” territory right now. I’m just suggesting that your arguments that suggest affirming these people is dangerous is undercut by all the discrimination. People who choose to murder children made a choice, it’s not society’s fault they did so. But it’s not society’s fault for not discriminating against them either.
No, it’s the individual’s fault, not the segment of the population or society. This individual person committed an unspeakable act of violence against children and there is no justifying it. But given that you two are digging your heels in on using a handful of incidents to generalize about an entire population I guess it’s par for the course that you would misunderstand that argument so severely.
People who feel loved, supported and acknowledged are not *more* prone to commit senseless acts of violence. That’s an absurd argument, and I fail to see how it’s not just a worse version of blaming society for discriminating against them.
How on Earth am I having to argue with you to hold an individual accountable for their own bad actions rather than blaming society as a whole? I understand that I have an outsized influence on my reaction to anti-trans rhetoric and arguments due to my feelings on their persecution from others, but clearly you must also see that you abandon a lot of your logical reasoning when the subject comes up.
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The other primary issue I have is that the actual implication here is that you must get them help, but that help must reinforce *their* expected outcome. The “institutionalize all the trans people” is inherently a political solution, because the mental health professionals that they’re urging people to turn to in this case would not advocate for the resolutions they are proposing.
But they are prescribing the hormones to treat the disorder of gender dysphoria. I do see how you can get to your conclusion here, but saying they aren’t treating mental illness is just your opinion. That they’re doing so in a manner that doesn’t follow your expectation or as they have done in the past doesn’t make it not treatment. The effectiveness of that treatment and the resulting outcomes of patients needs to be studied very closely in both the short and long term, but that’s true of all mental health support. But you’re arriving at the conclusion of what Constitutional rights an entire population of people should have based on your *opinion* of their mental health and the treatment of these people, and instead of providing statistics about the overall population of trans individuals and the specific medical research of that healthcare, you’re advocating for violating their most basic rights to freedom in response to like 6 people committing a type of violence that is not remotely unique to their condition.
It’s a weak argument on its face when you’re suggesting giving the goddamn federal government this kind of power to lock people up whether they’ve committed a crime or not. You don’t think Joe Biden could have deemed unvaccinated to be a disorder and open up asylums for that affliction?