Economics Thread

mqt said:
lol, what? If the government prints a bunch of money or taxes us to pay for Medicaid for more people, prices are going up in exchange for services being provided. Tariffs are inflationary in the same exact way. You simply cannot disconnect tariffs from inflation because the intended beneficiaries of the tariffs differ from other taxation or other forms of inflationary policy.
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Tariffs over an extended period of time revert opportunities to the working class. Inflation from the money printer goes steight to asset holder class.

It’s not close to the same thing.
 
thethe said:
Tariffs over an extended period of time revert opportunities to the working class. Inflation from the money printer goes steight to asset holder class.

It’s not close to the same thing.
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You’re just arriving at outcomes you prefer on tariffs and against outcomes you prefer on other inflationary practices without any sort of rationale provided. Who do you think benefits the most from an increase in domestic production, the stakeholders in an industry buoyed by tariffs or the workers? If you think it’s the latter, why? Are tariff-fueled jobs special ones that exist outside of the established system of labor we have in this country?
 
thethe said:
Yes it doesn’t happen overnight. The first wave of employment is removing the incentives to hire non Americans. Next will be the wave of increased manufacturing.
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Through what mechanism? If we aren’t seeing an increase in total manufacturing jobs after several months of discouraging imports, what is going to change that trend?
 
mqt said:
Through what mechanism? If we aren’t seeing an increase in total manufacturing jobs after several months of discouraging imports, what is going to change that trend?
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Commitments already made to onshore. Do you think that happens overnight?
 
thethe said:
Commitments already made to onshore. Do you think that happens overnight?
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This might be a compelling argument if we were carefully implementing targeted tariffs to increase production in key industries that we are trying to on-shore instead of blanket tariffs on every country in the world for all goods, including those that won’t or can’t be on-shored.
 
mqt said:
This might be a compelling argument if we were carefully implementing targeted tariffs to increase production in key industries that we are trying to on-shore instead of blanket tariffs on every country in the world for all goods, including those that won’t or can’t be on-shored.
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We have commitments made with the current policy in place. Checking industry specific job numbers months into a dramatic shift in trade policy doesn’t say a thing.
 
thethe said:
We have commitments made with the current policy in place. Checking industry specific job numbers months into a dramatic shift in trade policy doesn’t say a thing.
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Just as with my other complaint, you’re just claiming that this was the only way to do it, and it’s not. And given some of the significant negative externalities associated with this current policy, Republicans had better pray it’s a massive, resounding success by November of next year, because people simply won’t vote for the promise of a better future economy if the current one isn’t better for them.
 
mqt said:
Just as with my other complaint, you’re just claiming that this was the only way to do it, and it’s not. And given some of the significant negative externalities associated with this current policy, Republicans had better pray it’s a massive, resounding success by November of next year, because people simply won’t vote for the promise of a better future economy if the current one isn’t better for them.
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Why all the announcements/committtments after trump won and it was clear what his policies would be?
 
thethe said:
Why all the announcements/committtments after trump won and it was clear what his policies would be?
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I think this is clear revisionist history. It’s fair to say most people expected Trump to promote a more protectionist economy and implement tariffs in some way. But it was not until the lead up to Liberation Day when the scope of the tariffs started to trickle out that most people discovered the President was actually that insane, and that Congress was actually that feckless. A lot of very reasonable people I disagree with on a lot of these things were not expecting what’s happened with Trump’s economic policy.
 
mqt said:
I think this is clear revisionist history. It’s fair to say most people expected Trump to promote a more protectionist economy and implement tariffs in some way. But it was not until the lead up to Liberation Day when the scope of the tariffs started to trickle out that most people discovered the President was actually that insane, and that Congress was actually that feckless. A lot of very reasonable people I disagree with on a lot of these things were not expecting what’s happened with Trump’s economic policy.
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Trumps rhetoric was very clear. The idea to paint what happened as more extreme was to create a narrative. That is all.
 
thethe said:
Trumps rhetoric was very clear. The idea to paint what happened as more extreme was to create a narrative. That is all.
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Why do you think markets reacted the way they did when the tariffs were announced if everybody was expecting what happened? Why did the more libertarian/free trade wing of the party abandon ship so hard? Even if someone thought Trump himself wanted to do exactly what he’s done, they might have expected him to not count on Congress to just unilaterally enact such extensive taxes on American businesses.
 
But also, you don’t get to just unilaterally declare that everybody knew what was going to happen and voted accordingly. There’s actual humans on this board that I think can personally attest to this situation.
 
mqt said:
Why do you think markets reacted the way they did when the tariffs were announced if everybody was expecting what happened? Why did the more libertarian/free trade wing of the party abandon ship so hard? Even if someone thought Trump himself wanted to do exactly what he’s done, they might have expected him to not count on Congress to just unilaterally enact such extensive taxes on American businesses.
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You think libertarians would have settled for any type of trade barrier? Come on now.
 
mqt said:
I’m not dumb enough to think a libertarian will ever be satisfied, but I do think they’d engage more constructively with trade barriers that weren’t insane.
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They will not - they’ve said nothing about trade barriers from other countries for decades.
 
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