Some Red State/Blue State Indicia

Columbia and all these other Ivy League schools need to be weaned off their subsidies. And enough with the DEI hiring of Latinos for important jobs like president. That they have rhythm and can dance doesn't make them qualified to run a university.
 
On a more serious note, countries like Colombia and Ecuador have paid an enormous price as a result of the narcotics trade fueled by the insatiable appetites of Americans for drugs. Their entire societies have been destabilized. We fook these countries up and wonder why there is a tidal wave of people leaving.
 
nsacpi said:
On a more serious note, countries like Colombia and Ecuador have paid an enormous price as a result of the narcotics trade fueled by the insatiable appetites of Americans for drugs. Their entire societies have been destabilized. We fook these countries up and wonder why there is a tidal wave of people leaving.
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Ehh… you’re welcome to my serving of guilt on this one. No one forced these countries to subsist off the narcotics trade
 
chop2chip said:
Ehh… you’re welcome to my serving of guilt on this one. No one forced these countries to subsist off the narcotics trade
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Ehh...99% of the populations in those countries are not involved in the narcotics trade...they are victims of the insatiable appetites of America's drug users

I'm not asking you to partake in any guilt...just stating a fact...our drug users ship massive amounts of money to powerful and violent cartels who turned entire societies upside down
 
what has the narcotics trade done to colombia and ecuador

ChatGPT said:​

Here’s a detailed breakdown of how the narcotics trade has impacted Colombia and Ecuador — how it has shaped their politics, societies, economies, environment and human-rights situations. There’s a lot of overlap, but each country has its own particular dynamics.

Key impacts​


  1. Violence and conflict escalation
    • The drug trade in Colombia has been intimately linked with armed groups. The profits from cocaine enabled guerrilla groups, paramilitaries and criminal organisations to fund operations, to build protection networks, and to multiply violence. Encyclopedia Britannica+2PMC+2
    • Illicit-drug activity has driven high levels of homicide, displacement, and human-rights abuses. PMC+1
    • Efforts to eradicate coca and crack cartels often became militarised, with the country becoming a battleground in the “war on drugs”. Harvard International Review+1
  2. Institutional and governance erosion
    • The narcotics economy generated large illicit flows of money, which were laundered, used to corrupt law-enforcement, judiciary and political actors. Encyclopedia Britannica
    • The state’s focus on military and enforcement approaches sometimes undermined other state functions (social services, rule of law) and reinforced a cycle of violence and impunity. ICIP+1
    • The existence and operation of huge illicit economies also distorted the political field — for example influencing local governance, land rights, and enabling non-state armed actors to provide services or rule in some zones. Encyclopedia Britannica
  3. Economic distortion
    • The illegal drug economy in Colombia has been so large that some estimations suggest at certain times it comprised a substantial share of the informal economy. Scholars' Bank+1
    • While some communities benefited economically (via coca incomes) this came with high costs (instability, dependency, violence). Scholars' Bank
    • The dependence on illicit income also makes regions vulnerable: when eradication or crack-downs happen, economic alternatives are often weak, which perpetuates the cycle of illegality.
  4. Environmental and social costs
    • Coca cultivation and cocaine processing have major environmental effects: deforestation, chemical contamination, erosion of local ecosystems. Wikipedia+1
    • Social health impacts: increased violence, trauma, social dislocation, victims of forced recruitment, internal displacement. PMC+1
    • The dynamics also affect indigenous and rural communities heavily, often in border or remote regions where state presence is weak.
  5. Challenges with drug policy and limits of enforcement
    • Despite decades of large interventions (domestic + international) the trends of production and trafficking have proved resilient. For example, coca cultivation has been rising again in recent years. Harvard International Review+1
    • Scholars argue that focusing solely on prohibition/enforcement without addressing demand, poverty, substitution crops, or development has limited effect and sometimes harmful unintended consequences. ICIP+1
    • The drug trade also forced Colombia to become a kind of base of operations for global supply chains — shifting rather than eliminating production sometimes. Harvard International Review+1

Why this matters​


  • As the world’s largest cocaine‐producing country (for many years) Colombia’s stability, governance and development are deeply tied to how the narcotics trade is managed.
  • The costs are not just crime or violence: they affect investment, infrastructure development, rural livelihoods, environment, and the capacity of the state to govern.
  • The question of how to transition away from illicit economies is central — unless viable alternatives exist in the coca-growing zones, eradication only shifts the problem.
  • The interplay between the drug trade, armed conflict (such as with the FARC or the ELN), and peace processes mean any drug policy is part of a much broader governance challenge.
 

Key impacts​


  1. Transit-state role and increasing violence
    • Historically Ecuador was less affected than its neighbour Colombia, but more recently it has become a major transit and logistical hub for cocaine moving from Colombia/Peru to global markets. CSIS+1
    • This transit role has brought increased violence, turf wars between gangs, prison riots, and destabilisation of formerly safer zones. Crisis Group+1
    • As one source puts it: “Drugs transformed Ecuador from a Latin American success story into a war zone.” Pulitzer Center
  2. Governance, corruption and human rights stress
    • The illicit economies have penetrated institutions. Money laundering, corrupt officials, weak border & port controls all add to the fragility of governance. Freedom House+1
    • Human rights concerns: as the state responds with militarisation, states of emergency, the risk of rights violations increases. Freedom House
  3. Economic and social ramifications
    • Statistics show significant impact: for example, an IMF-related study found that a 1 % increase in the local murder rate (driven by gangster/trafficking violence) is associated with up to a 0.5 % decline in economic activity. IMF eLibrary
    • The economy is distorted: as one article noted, many Ecuadorians without stable income saw drug trafficking and related illicit economy as one of the only options. Latinoamérica 21
    • The dollarised economy of Ecuador (meaning they use the US dollar) may make laundering and international transit flows somewhat easier. William J. Perry Center
  4. Prison crisis and gang power
    • Prison systems have become flashpoints: large riots, deadly battles among gangs fighting for control of drug routes, have emerged. For example, a dramatic increase in the prison population (from ~11,000 in 2009 to almost 40,000 by 2021) coincided with the expansion of drug-trafficking presence. Crisis Group
    • Some gangs in Ecuador have been declared terrorist groups by the government in response to their violence, influence and structure. CBS News

Why this matters​


  • For Ecuador, the shift from being a relatively quiet country in terms of drug-violence to a major transit hub means major changes in security dynamics, state capacity, criminal governance, social cohesion.
  • The narcotics trade threatens not just the border zones but major urban centres, ports and infrastructures — meaning the country’s national governance and economy are being pulled into the illicit sphere.
  • Because Ecuador is dollarised and connected via Pacific ports, its role in global supply chains of cocaine makes the stakes high: infrastructure, trade flows, international relations are all implicated.
  • The evolution of the problem in Ecuador suggests that the transit role often becomes a destination role: as the trade grows, stay-behind networks emerge, making the illicit economy more embedded and harder to remove. Council on Foreign Relations
 
Money quote for those who don't care to wade through the whole thang:

“Drugs transformed Ecuador from a Latin American success story into a war zone.”
 
chop2chip said:
Sounds like a bunch of really good reasons for the people of Latin America to have done things differently.
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No. Ecuador was doing fine thank you. Until they got sucked into the vortex.

Your advice is like telling someone who gets hits by a tornado that they put their house in the wrong place.
 
Jaw said:
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You should have kept scrolling. Those are the lower paying tech jobs. California's share of income from tech jobs is as high as ever. There are tech jobs and there are tech jobs. Not that there is any dishonor in having the former. It just makes sense after a while to move them to other parts of the country. Part of the technological spillovers I've been discussing.

I miss your sig.
 
Ecuador’s problems stem from their own local government corruption and failures, including their failure to control the cartels and traffickers. American users contribute indirectly but they’re not responsible.

If y’all want to wallow and commiserate, more power to you.
 
If a proportional amount of money (6% of GDP in the case of Colombia) was shipped to violent American criminal organizations we would have social upheaval on a very large scale. Not the same scale because we have more resources to deal with the resulting societal upheaval. But it would not be a day at the beach. Six percent of GDP buys off a lot of judges and police.
 
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