TRHLIM

Agreed on Destiny.

On the topic of Fuentes, Destiny has engaged him on a few occasions.

He’s a toxic mess, but I think sets a good example for how influencers should engage reaching out to different audiences
 
I would personally love to see a debate between Timothy Snyder and Nick Fuentes on the Holocaust. I don't think Snyder would view him as a worthy opponent, but I agree with the point that there is more gained than lost from such debates.
 
nsacpi said:
I don't understand how personalities on the right are always debating personalities on the left if there are no personalities on the left brave enough to do this. Are we talking about hypothetical debates that don't happen because of the cowardice of the left?
Click to expand...
We could start with the reaction from the left side of the hall when conservatives are invited on campus (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/19/us/berkeley-ann-coulter-speech-canceled.html)

Or when they punish their own for going into conservative spaces (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51241462.amp)

Or not wanting to go into the lion’s den themselves https://www.yahoo.com/news/aoc-expl...on-fox-news-unmitigated-racism-203828982.html

www.pbs.org

Warren turns down Fox News televised town hall

Warren slammed the network as "a hate-for-profit racket that gives a megaphone to racists and conspiracists."
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org

These are specific examples, but no one denies the broader view that liberals avoided conversations with people they disagreed with (https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-new-yorker-interview/ezra-klein-argues-for-big-tent-politics?)

Credit to people like Bernie Sanders, Pete Buttigieg and Gavin Newsom for recognizing this blind spot and making efforts to go into unfriendly spaces.
 
nsacpi said:
That's a shame about the Coulter cancellation. In 2017. I agree that is a regrettable example of intolerance on the left.
Click to expand...
2017 was quite the ride. I asked the robot for a list. Admittedly I’m not familiar with the specifics of all of these (we lived in Davis at the time of the Stephen Davis and I was at Cal Berkeley during all of these cancelled events).
  1. UC Berkeley — Milo Yiannopoulos — Feb 1, 2017 — Event canceled after violent protests and safety concerns.
  2. DePaul University — Ben Shapiro (invited) — Aug 3, 2016 — University said it could not provide required security and denied the event.
  3. Middlebury College — Charles Murray — March 2, 2017 — Lecture disrupted by protests; event shut down amid scuffles and safety concerns.
  4. University of Florida — Richard Spencer (scheduled) — Aug/Sep 2017 — University rescinded or restricted bookings after Charlottesville and cited safety risks.
  5. UC Berkeley — Ann Coulter — 2017 (pullout/cancellation) — Outdoor event canceled/withdrawn amid security concerns and lack of backing.
  6. UC Berkeley (Campus Republicans) — David Horowitz — April 2017 — Campus Republicans canceled an appearance after police/security raised concerns about providing adequate security.
  7. UC Davis — Stephen Davis (“MAGA Hulk”) / Turning Point USA event — Oct 25, 2022 — Event canceled after a ~100-person brawl between protesters and counterprotesters.
  8. Pennsylvania State University — Gavin McInnes & Alex Stein — Oct 24, 2022 — University canceled the student-hosted show citing threat of escalating violence; later became subject of legal challenges.
  9. Hampshire College — Antonia Okafor (gun-rights speaker) — Dec 6, 2017 — Event canceled hours before it was to begin; college later apologized and cited controversy/safety.
  10. Various UC events (Milo/Ann Coulter/David Horowitz) — UC system settlements & policy changes — 2017–2018 — UC agreed to revise event/security policies after lawsuits over multiple cancelled conservative events.
  11. Multiple campuses — pattern (Ben Shapiro, Charles Murray, Milo, others) — 2014–2018 — A cluster of conservative speakers saw protests or cancellations across campuses, prompting national debate on safety vs. free speech.
  12. Other recent campus incidents (examples compiled by FIRE/analysis outlets) — Ongoing record of deplatforming/cancellations collected in databases tracking campus speaker disputes.
 
Characterizing Destiny as the winner of his debate with Shapiro is a take. I would suggest that ChatGPT is relying a bit too heavily on Reddit, but that would be undervaluing the impact of its directives and developers.
 
chop2chip said:
2017 was quite the ride. I asked the robot for a list. Admittedly I’m not familiar with the specifics of all of these (we lived in Davis at the time of the Stephen Davis and I was at Cal Berkeley during all of these cancelled events).
  1. UC Berkeley — Milo Yiannopoulos — Feb 1, 2017 — Event canceled after violent protests and safety concerns.
  2. DePaul University — Ben Shapiro (invited) — Aug 3, 2016 — University said it could not provide required security and denied the event.
  3. Middlebury College — Charles Murray — March 2, 2017 — Lecture disrupted by protests; event shut down amid scuffles and safety concerns.
  4. University of Florida — Richard Spencer (scheduled) — Aug/Sep 2017 — University rescinded or restricted bookings after Charlottesville and cited safety risks.
  5. UC Berkeley — Ann Coulter — 2017 (pullout/cancellation) — Outdoor event canceled/withdrawn amid security concerns and lack of backing.
  6. UC Berkeley (Campus Republicans) — David Horowitz — April 2017 — Campus Republicans canceled an appearance after police/security raised concerns about providing adequate security.
  7. UC Davis — Stephen Davis (“MAGA Hulk”) / Turning Point USA event — Oct 25, 2022 — Event canceled after a ~100-person brawl between protesters and counterprotesters.
  8. Pennsylvania State University — Gavin McInnes & Alex Stein — Oct 24, 2022 — University canceled the student-hosted show citing threat of escalating violence; later became subject of legal challenges.
  9. Hampshire College — Antonia Okafor (gun-rights speaker) — Dec 6, 2017 — Event canceled hours before it was to begin; college later apologized and cited controversy/safety.
  10. Various UC events (Milo/Ann Coulter/David Horowitz) — UC system settlements & policy changes — 2017–2018 — UC agreed to revise event/security policies after lawsuits over multiple cancelled conservative events.
  11. Multiple campuses — pattern (Ben Shapiro, Charles Murray, Milo, others) — 2014–2018 — A cluster of conservative speakers saw protests or cancellations across campuses, prompting national debate on safety vs. free speech.
  12. Other recent campus incidents (examples compiled by FIRE/analysis outlets) — Ongoing record of deplatforming/cancellations collected in databases tracking campus speaker disputes.
Click to expand...
Weird there were so many “security concerns” at these events

I wonder what that’s all about
 
I think all those people should be allowed to speak unmolested. Security should be provided as necessary to deal with those who would disrupt free speech.
 
is Elon Musk still a major source of disinformation?

Overview​

Yes, as of November 2025, Elon Musk remains a major source of disinformation. This assessment is based on extensive reporting from fact-checking organizations, mainstream media outlets, and analyses of his activity on X (formerly Twitter), where he has over 200 million followers. Musk's posts—often amplifying unverified claims, conspiracy theories, or false narratives—routinely garner billions of views, far outpacing corrections or fact-checks. His influence extends beyond personal posts, as changes to X's moderation policies under his ownership have reduced barriers to misinformation spread. While Musk frequently dismisses critical coverage as "fake news," evidence from 2025 shows a pattern of high-impact falsehoods on topics like elections, UK politics, European affairs, and South Africa.

Key Evidence from 2025​

Musk's disinformation has targeted sensitive issues, influencing public discourse and even policy. Here's a breakdown of notable examples:
TopicSpecific Claims/PostsImpact/ReachDebunk/Source
UK Grooming Gangs & PoliticsMusk amplified baseless claims about a 2008 Home Office memo allegedly covering up child exploitation, accusing former PM Gordon Brown of "selling little girls for votes" and attacking PM Keir Starmer. He posted over 100 times in early 2025, including reposts from far-right accounts.100+ million views; fueled riots and threats against officials like Safeguarding Minister Jess Phillips, who said it "endangered" her.BBC Verify confirmed no such memo existed; The Guardian called it "escalating hate and threatening democracy."
US Elections & GovernmentMusk shared false claims about voter fraud (e.g., Democrats "importing voters") and election integrity, reaching 2 billion views in 2024-2025. Post-Trump win, he influenced DOGE (Department of Government Efficiency) firings based on misleading narratives about federal workers.Billions of views; corrections from officials like Michigan's Secretary of State got minimal engagement compared to Musk's posts.Center for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH) analysis; NBC News reported his lies spread "hundreds of times further" than fact-checks.
European PoliticsMusk attacked EU leaders, supported far-right parties (e.g., "Make Europe Great Again" post), and insulted figures like Germany's Olaf Scholz, calling for arrests. He amplified disinformation on migration and judiciary.352+ million views for 12 posts alone; contributed to far-right gains in 2025 elections.EDMO report labeled X "the epicenter of disinformation"; CNN noted his "heavy-handed interference."
South AfricaMusk shared misleading anecdotes conflating crime with racial narratives, including false claims about "white genocide" and government policies. He attempted to influence Grok AI to align with these views.Millions of views; amplified stereotypes and drew international backlash.News24 debunked as "inflammatory portrayal"; X users called it a "pattern of misinformation." (post)
Platform-Wide IssuesUnder Musk, X faced EU penalties for failing to curb hate speech and disinformation; he sued New York over a hate speech reporting law. His own AI, Grok, admitted in 2024 (and echoed in 2025 queries) that Musk is the "biggest spreader of misinformation" due to his reach and lack of corrections.X designated a "disinformation machine"; billions of uncorrected views.NYT on EU fines; Vox on viral sarcasm (e.g., Biden pardon); TechPolicy.Press on "digital authority."

Broader Context​

  • Scale and Mechanism: Musk's 2025 posts often originate or boost debunked content from far-right accounts, with X's reduced moderation (e.g., fewer Community Notes on his claims) allowing rapid spread. A France 24 analysis found 28 fake stories in October 2024 alone, viewed 540 million times— a trend continuing into 2025.
  • Musk's Response: He routinely labels critics "fake news" (e.g., dismissing AP, FT, and CNN reports) and positions X as a "free speech" platform, but this has led to lawsuits and regulatory scrutiny.– (posts)
  • Why "Major" Source?: His follower count and algorithmic favoritism make him uniquely influential. As Vox noted, "we are all living inside Elon Musk’s disinformation machine." X posts from users like @mehdirhasan and @thunderf00t reinforce this, citing Grok's own admissions. (posts)
This isn't partisan speculation—it's substantiated by cross-verified reports. If Musk's patterns shift, so might this view, but current data shows no abatement.
 
Is AI now the barometer for truth ?
chop2chip said:
We could start with the reaction from the left side of the hall when conservatives are invited on campus (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/19/us/berkeley-ann-coulter-speech-canceled.html)

Or when they punish their own for going into conservative spaces (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51241462.amp)

Or not wanting to go into the lion’s den themselves https://www.yahoo.com/news/aoc-expl...on-fox-news-unmitigated-racism-203828982.html

www.pbs.org

Warren turns down Fox News televised town hall

Warren slammed the network as "a hate-for-profit racket that gives a megaphone to racists and conspiracists."
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org

These are specific examples, but no one denies the broader view that liberals avoided conversations with people they disagreed with (https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-new-yorker-interview/ezra-klein-argues-for-big-tent-politics?)

Credit to people like Bernie Sanders, Pete Buttigieg and Gavin Newsom for recognizing this blind spot and making efforts to go into unfriendly spaces.
Click to expand...
Joe Rogan has repeatedly said most won’t ever return his calls and if they do they want a ton of money
 
Tapate50 said:
Is AI now the barometer for truth ?

Joe Rogan has repeatedly said most won’t ever return his calls and if they do they want a ton of money
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't they want money? They're not going to gain following for going on Rogan's podcast. Why wouldn't they want to be paid? You just do work for free?
 
Has someone explained why its okay to drop bombs on international civilians but wrong to shoot Charlie Kirk yet? Would it be morally better to bomb his boat while he was on it?
 
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