TLHLIM

Jaw said:
It’s against the law for minors to get tattoos, drink alcohol, and use tobacco. They can’t enter into legal contracts. If a 90s kid ordered Columbia House records, Columbia House had no recourse to get their money because they took the minor’s word for it that they were 18. No credit cards, no bills of any kind. They can’t join the military.

We do all of that because it’s accepted and agreed that they don’t have the life experience to make such long term choices. That’s also why the idea that they could consent to life altering treatment that renders them infertile is and always was absolutely absurd.
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It’s obvious. I mean really this was a gimme
 
Jaw said:
It’s against the law for minors to get tattoos, drink alcohol, and use tobacco. They can’t enter into legal contracts. If a 90s kid ordered Columbia House records, Columbia House had no recourse to get their money because they took the minor’s word for it that they were 18. No credit cards, no bills of any kind. They can’t join the military.

We do all of that because it’s accepted and agreed that they don’t have the life experience to make such long term choices. That’s also why the idea that they could consent to life altering treatment that renders them infertile is and always was absolutely absurd.
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For what it’s worth, I have always been more sympathetic to this argument. The main issue I have with the “right-wing” argument in this thread yesterday is that it’s clear the point was to call the procedure itself an obvious farce and use children as a shield. Even if you believe that, I don’t think it’s reasonable for a bunch of people like you and me to just decide for ourselves whether a surgical procedure is effective medical treatment for a person who does not share our thoughts and feelings.

But the strongest argument I can see for changing the guidance is that the human brain and body is undergoing a lot of change during these years. Even if the parents also need to consent to treatment, they don’t know what’s going on in the brain of their child when providing that consent. Again, as an outsider not needing to think about this choice, I will defer to doctors and patients to come to the right conclusion for medical care on things I don’t understand, but there’s always been a tension between puberty and gender to me.
 
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thethe said:
When have we made the argument anything other than being a minor?
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It’s your framing of the argument. If it’s simple common sense that should tell me cutting someone’s dick off is a bad thing, that implies that just saving a child’s dick from being cut off for 3-4 more years is not the end goal. If the surgery isn’t itself a farce, we’re just “protecting” children from their medical care for a few years.
 
mqt said:
It’s your framing of the argument. If it’s simple common sense that should tell me cutting someone’s dick off is a bad thing, that implies that just saving a child’s dick from being cut off for 3-4 more years is not the end goal. If the surgery isn’t itself a farce, we’re just “protecting” children from their medical care for a few years.
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We have literally been talking about children since the beginning.

Overall the whole concept is a joke but adults can mutilate themselves if they want
 
thethe said:
We have literally been talking about children since the beginning.

Overall the whole concept is a joke but adults can mutilate themselves if they want
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Yeah this is nonsense and the expected pivot of the unwind.

"I was always sympathetic to argument for children"

Never fails
 
sturg33 said:
Yeah this is nonsense and the expected pivot of the unwind.

"I was always sympathetic to argument for children"

Never fails
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Not enough to doubt the medical professionals are doing legitimate medical treatment of these minors. The question to me is whether the parents have enough knowledge of what is going on inside their head to give informed consent for a medical procedure of this scope, but I’m still willing to accept the judgments of medical professionals working in conjunction with patients and their families to provide such treatment when it is necessary.

I’ve said from the start that they should continue doing rigorous studies on post-intervention results. If those continue to support treatment, I don’t care that the treatment can be described by reactionaries as mutilation.
 
I’ve certainly made the argument that insurance shouldn’t cover what is at best cosmetic surgery for adults. With constantly rising healthcare and insurance costs that seems like an easy cost savings target for me. It shouldn’t be provided by prisons either, and the military has already realized significant cost savings by eliminating it, because for years people were only joining for a single enlistment period to make the military pay for transing them.
 
Jaw said:
I’ve certainly made the argument that insurance shouldn’t cover what is at best cosmetic surgery for adults. With constantly rising healthcare and insurance costs that seems like an easy cost savings target for me. It shouldn’t be provided by prisons either, and the military has already realized significant cost savings by eliminating it, because for years people were only joining for a single enlistment period to make the military pay for transing them.
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This is also obvious

This will all be done away with after a few more lawsuits. But the lives have been destroyed

In 30 years everyone will look back on this madness and call it out for what it was
 
sturg33 said:
This is also obvious

This will all be done away with after a few more lawsuits. But the lives have been destroyed

In 30 years everyone will look back on this madness and call it out for what it was
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It truly looks like the lobotomy era to me, but worse because so many will be aware of what happened to them.
 
Jaw said:
I’ve certainly made the argument that insurance shouldn’t cover what is at best cosmetic surgery for adults. With constantly rising healthcare and insurance costs that seems like an easy cost savings target for me. It shouldn’t be provided by prisons either, and the military has already realized significant cost savings by eliminating it, because for years people were only joining for a single enlistment period to make the military pay for transing them.
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We are a joke of a nation.
 
thethe said:
But we are supposed to believe these types of people enrich us.
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And hey... the consensus among adults in Pakistan is that child is better off with her Muslim rapists instead of her christian family.

And seeing as how im not currently in position of being handed to a rapist, who am I to question that consensus?
 
sturg33 said:
And hey... the consensus among adults in Pakistan is that child is better off with her Muslim rapists instead of her christian family.

And seeing as how im not currently in position of being handed to a rapist, who am I to question that consensus?
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Who are we to judge? We won’t have any of our children sold off to slavery.
 
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