Legal/scotus thread

https://marginalrevolution.com/marg...rgument-for-ieepa-tariffs-fails.html#comments

The dissent pushes back with an intuitively appealing argument: IEEPA authorizes the President to prohibit imports entirely, so surely it authorizes the lesser action of merely taxing them. If Congress handed over the nuclear option, why would it withhold the conventional weapon? Indeed in his press conference Trump, in his rambling manner, made exactly this argument:

“I am allowed to cut off any and all trade…I can destroy the trade, I can destroy the country, I’m even allowed to impose a foreign country destroying embargo…I can do anything I want to do to them…I’m allowed to destroy the country, but I can’t charge a little fee.”

The argument is superficially appealing but it fails due to a standard result in principal-agent theory.

Congress wants the President to move fast in a real emergency, but it doesn’t want to hand over routine control of trade policy. The right delegation design is therefore a screening device: give the President authority he will exercise only when the situation is truly an emergency.

An import ban works as a screening device precisely because it is very disruptive. A ban creates immediate and substantial harm. It is a “costly signal.” A President who invokes it is credibly saying: this is serious enough that I am willing to absorb a large cost. Tariffs, in contrast, are cheaper–especially to the President. Tariffs raise revenue, which offsets political pain. Tariff incidence is diffuse and easy to misattribute—prices creep, intermediaries take blame, consumers don’t observe the policy lever directly. Most importantly tariffs are adjustable, which makes them a weapon useful for bargaining, exemptions, and targeted favors. Tariffs under executive authority implicitly carry the message–I am the king; give me a gold bar and I will reduce your tariffs. Tariff flexibility is more politically appealing than a ban and thus a less credible signal of an emergency. The “lesser-included” argument gets the logic backwards. The asymmetry is the point.

Not surprisingly, the same structure appears in real emergency services. A fire chief may have the authority to close roads during an emergency but that doesn’t imply that the fire chief has the authority to impose road tolls. Road closure is costly and self-limiting — it disrupts traffic, generates immediate complaints, and the chief has every incentive to lift it as soon as possible. Tolls are cheap, adjustable, and once in place tend to persist; they generate revenue that can fund the agency and create constituencies for their continuation. Nobody thinks granting a fire chief emergency closure authority implicitly grants them taxing authority, even if the latter is a lesser authority. The closure and toll instruments have completely different political economy properties despite operating on the same roads.

The majority reaches the right conclusion by noting that tariffs are a tax over which Congress, not the President, has authority. That is constitutionally correct but the deeper question is why the Framers lodged the taxing power in Congress — and the answer is political economy. Revenue instruments are especially easy for an executive to exploit because they can be targeted. The constitutional rule exists to solve that incentive problem.

Once you see that, the dissent’s “greater includes the lesser” inference collapses on its own terms. A principal can rationally authorize am agent to take a dramatic emergency action while withholding the cheaper, revenue-lever not despite the fact that it seems milder, but because of it. The blunt instrument is self-limiting. The revenue instrument is not. That asymmetry is what the Constitution’s categorical division of powers preserves — and what an open-ended emergency delegation would destroy.

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Well put.
 
I dont buy Trumps reasoning but I probably would have liked for Presidents to have the power for unilateral tarrifs. Its a much better way to exert influence over other countries than the old way of giving them billions a year and then threatening to stop. Tariffs that are national security issues should have no problem being approved by Congress if they are legit,
 
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Of course they're doing this lawsuit in a blue area where the jury has already decided the outcome before the case has even started.

"The class-action suit was filed by Twitter investors who allege that Musk violated federal securities laws during his protracted, public indecision about purchasing the company in 2022."

"Plaintiffs claim Musk’s actions were a scheme to drive down the share price before he ultimately completed the $44 billion acquisition in October 2022, causing them financial harm."

The problem is that everybody on planet earth knows that Elon overpaid buying Twitter.

I don't like Elon's chances.

 
This is part of why I think there should be fewer hoops to jump through when it comes to certain cases in the legal system, such as executive action. If a President’s executive order is deemed unconstitutional by SCOTUS, we shouldn’t have to wait months for the next clearly unconstitutional act to be litigated through every level of the courts.
Eh… checks and balances go both ways. The waiting game is sort of the point.
 
Eh… checks and balances go both ways. The waiting game is sort of the point.
I understand that point, but conflicts between the constitutional authority of the branches seem like there should at least have a special mechanism to avoid handing them off to some district judge. Would also help with things like federal agencies overreaching with their regulations.
 
Of course they're doing this lawsuit in a blue area where the jury has already decided the outcome before the case has even started.

"The class-action suit was filed by Twitter investors who allege that Musk violated federal securities laws during his protracted, public indecision about purchasing the company in 2022."

"Plaintiffs claim Musk’s actions were a scheme to drive down the share price before he ultimately completed the $44 billion acquisition in October 2022, causing them financial harm."

The problem is that everybody on planet earth knows that Elon overpaid buying Twitter.

I don't like Elon's chances.

Delegitimization of the legal system by weaponizing it against the 50% of the country that owns 90% of the guns is certainly a bold strategy.
 
I understand that point, but conflicts between the constitutional authority of the branches seem like there should at least have a special mechanism to avoid handing them off to some district judge. Would also help with things like federal agencies overreaching with their regulations.
Settings good (or bad) judicial precedent has effects that span centuries. The lower courts allow the legal case on both sides to be refined, facts to be established, different interpretations of the law to best tested, etc. such that by the time it reaches the Supreme Court the justices can review a well developed legal and factual foundation.

As much as it might be frustrating when you have a EO drunk executive branch, there are sufficient checks against that power (from the other branches and electorally). If we had mechanisms that got things on the door step of the SC immediately then you’d have a bunch of people with lifetime authority with the ability to overrule the other branches at any time. The founders thought these things through believe it or not.
 
Settings good (or bad) judicial precedent has effects that span centuries. The lower courts allow the legal case on both sides to be refined, facts to be established, different interpretations of the law to best tested, etc. such that by the time it reaches the Supreme Court the justices can review a well developed legal and factual foundation.

As much as it might be frustrating when you have a EO drunk executive branch, there are sufficient checks against that power (from the other branches and electorally). If we had mechanisms that got things on the door step of the SC immediately then you’d have a bunch of people with lifetime authority with the ability to overrule the other branches at any time. The founders thought these things through believe it or not.
Yeah, you’re right. I made the mistake of forgetting this is ultimately still Mike Johnson’s fault.
 
Of course they're doing this lawsuit in a blue area where the jury has already decided the outcome before the case has even started.

"The class-action suit was filed by Twitter investors who allege that Musk violated federal securities laws during his protracted, public indecision about purchasing the company in 2022."

"Plaintiffs claim Musk’s actions were a scheme to drive down the share price before he ultimately completed the $44 billion acquisition in October 2022, causing them financial harm."

The problem is that everybody on planet earth knows that Elon overpaid buying Twitter.

I don't like Elon's chances.



California is 60/40 split. If they cant find 12 people who dont want to strangle him with his entrails in that demographic then maybe thats his own fault. "I am such a giant douchebag that everyone hates me so I cant get a fair trial" doesnt work. I suggest he does what Alex Jones did and just violate so many orders that he gets summary judgement against him. Then go cry to the fake news media about how it was all rigged against him.
 
Delegitimization of the legal system by weaponizing it against the 50% of the country that owns 90% of the guns is certainly a bold strategy.

I dont know whats worse. That you think the legal system was ever legitimate or that you think it was weaponized against Republicans.
 
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