TLHLIM

Defining "net taxpayers" as individuals or households who pay more in federal taxes than they receive in government transfers and benefits (including means-tested programs like Medicaid and social insurance like Social Security and Medicare), data from the Congressional Budget Office indicates that roughly the top 20% of U.S. households by income qualify as net taxpayers, while the bottom 80% are net recipients on average. This is based on 2019 data, the most recent non-pandemic year analyzed in detail, where the transfer-to-tax ratio exceeds 1 for the bottom four income quintiles and falls below 1 for the top quintile.

Voting patterns vary by income, and higher-income groups (a proxy for net taxpayers) have historically leaned Republican in recent elections. Using 2020 presidential exit poll data as a reference point—where voters with household incomes over $100,000 (close to the top quintile threshold of around $130,000–$140,000) supported Donald Trump over Joe Biden by 54% to 42%—the Republican party would likely dominate if the electorate were restricted to net taxpayers. Lower-income groups, which lean Democratic, would be excluded.

- **Presidency**: Republicans would win the popular vote by approximately 10–15 percentage points (e.g., 55–57% Republican vs. 40–43% Democratic), translating to a decisive Electoral College victory, potentially 350+ electoral votes, as higher-income voters in swing states and even some blue states tend to favor lower taxes and conservative economic policies.
- **House of Representatives**: Republicans would secure a strong majority, potentially 250–300 seats (57–69%), as the national vote share among net taxpayers would heavily favor them in districts across red and purple states, with gains in suburban high-income areas.
- **Senate**: Republicans would likely gain a majority of 55–65 seats, benefiting from higher-income voter preferences in competitive states like Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Arizona, though outcomes in deep-blue states like California (where affluent voters lean Democratic) might remain closer.

This scenario assumes similar turnout and preferences among net taxpayers as observed in recent elections, but real-world factors like regional differences, policy shifts, and demographic overlaps could adjust margins. It's a hypothetical based on available data, not a prediction for future elections.
 
Defining "net taxpayers" as individuals or households who pay more in federal taxes than they receive in government transfers and benefits (including means-tested programs like Medicaid and social insurance like Social Security and Medicare), data from the Congressional Budget Office indicates that roughly the top 20% of U.S. households by income qualify as net taxpayers, while the bottom 80% are net recipients on average. This is based on 2019 data, the most recent non-pandemic year analyzed in detail, where the transfer-to-tax ratio exceeds 1 for the bottom four income quintiles and falls below 1 for the top quintile.

Voting patterns vary by income, and higher-income groups (a proxy for net taxpayers) have historically leaned Republican in recent elections. Using 2020 presidential exit poll data as a reference point—where voters with household incomes over $100,000 (close to the top quintile threshold of around $130,000–$140,000) supported Donald Trump over Joe Biden by 54% to 42%—the Republican party would likely dominate if the electorate were restricted to net taxpayers. Lower-income groups, which lean Democratic, would be excluded.

- **Presidency**: Republicans would win the popular vote by approximately 10–15 percentage points (e.g., 55–57% Republican vs. 40–43% Democratic), translating to a decisive Electoral College victory, potentially 350+ electoral votes, as higher-income voters in swing states and even some blue states tend to favor lower taxes and conservative economic policies.
- **House of Representatives**: Republicans would secure a strong majority, potentially 250–300 seats (57–69%), as the national vote share among net taxpayers would heavily favor them in districts across red and purple states, with gains in suburban high-income areas.
- **Senate**: Republicans would likely gain a majority of 55–65 seats, benefiting from higher-income voter preferences in competitive states like Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Arizona, though outcomes in deep-blue states like California (where affluent voters lean Democratic) might remain closer.

This scenario assumes similar turnout and preferences among net taxpayers as observed in recent elections, but real-world factors like regional differences, policy shifts, and demographic overlaps could adjust margins. It's a hypothetical based on available data, not a prediction for future elections.
It's never a good sign for your argument when you have to move the goalposts.

As a reminder this is the graphic you shared that prompted the discussion.

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I moved the goal posts from the graphic "what if only tax payers voted" to my grok question of "what would happen is only net tax payers voted?"

??
sure...the word net with a definition provided by you suddenly made an appearance

as i keep saying y'all just are having a hard time grasping that y'all not quite the ballers y'all make yourselves out to be

blue states and blue districts make a lot more money than red states and districts, most of whom closely resemble third world countries like mexico, and would be even worse off if not for technological transfers from places like San Jose, San Francisco and Boson
 
sure...the word net with a definition provided by you suddenly made an appearance
No. That was the definition grok gave. My prompt was the following:

"If only net tax payers voted in US elections, which party would win the presidency, the house, and the senate, and by how much?"
 
My argument is simple

People in blue states and blue districts live longer with a growing gap, they make more dough with a growing gap, and they attain a higher level of education with a growing gap. Moreover, the best research indicate that these outcomes are driven in large part by policy differences between blue states and red states

Your argument is equally simple

muh twitter feed shows something crazy happenin' somewhere in a blue state or city

and by the way just for shits and giggles: violent crime, including homicides, is lower in blue states
 
My argument is simple

People in blue states and blue districts live longer with a growing gap, they make more dough with a growing gap, and they attain a higher level of education with a growing gap. Moreover, the best research indicate that these outcomes are driven in large part by policy differences between blue states and red states

Your argument is equally simple

muh twitter feed shows something crazy happenin' somewhere in a blue state or city
My argument is simple.

If we limited electoral decisions to the people who actually produce, the people who actually fund the insane government you love... then the insane politicians you love would never be elected

Your entire party requires leeches, idiots, and immigrants who cant find a job to give them power
 
For anything political I find Chat GPT to be fun. You can basically argue with it like it’s the rare well informed leftist, but it can’t claim it doesn’t want to look up data or facts you provide prior to it forming a response, and it can’t just nope out of the conversation. The surrender of “Though your data and conclusions are strong, I can’t agree that <x protected group> is at fault because that’s a generalization” is always entertaining.
 
For anything political I find Chat GPT to be fun. You can basically argue with it like it’s the rare well informed leftist, but it can’t claim it doesn’t want to look up data or facts you provide prior to it forming a response, and it can’t just nope out of the conversation. The surrender of “Though your data and conclusions are strong, I can’t agree that <x protected group> is at fault because that’s a generalization” is always entertaining.
Its always good to be on the side of the group where you have to be against the data and evidence side of the equation
 
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