One thing about G-Dub.

Perhaps it's perspective relative to location... Zito says many in his NJ area were against Iraq.

Me living in a town with 2 major military bases (Hunter AAF, and Fort Stewart), everyone was all-in for Iraq (3rd ID was the first to go in, my Communications Technology Teacher abruptly left after the first month of my 7th grade school year to go to Iraq... he didn't come back until 2 months after the start of the 8th grade year. He was definitely a changed person. His attitude and aura were noticeably different, seemed more moody and aggressive than before he was deployed).

Our most popular local news channel, WTOC, is a true megaphone for right-wing military idealogues. The GM does an editorial almost every night on why we needed to go to Iraq, and quadruple the size of the military.

I also think living in the deep south,this muslims attacking American Christians thing got really personal, so it's another reason why going to war in Iraq was so favorable here.
 
I think you misread what I typed or I typed it poorly. Where I was the majority of people weren't for or against it as I recall. In my social setting (high school) the majority were for it. I know people who were against it, myself, a few liberal leaning friends, and outside that circle some folks in NJ I know of from TV and whatnot opposed it. I would guess compared to other traditionally liberal states, NJ and NY were probably more pro-Iraq than say California because of 9/11 and the chest beating Bush did about it.

Bush and co really wanted to invade Iraq, the desperation they showed was my biggest clue. When they were trying to link Hussein and Al Queda when Hussein killed religious radicals. That's why we put him in power.
 
Julio3000 said:
You mean one that had the support of the international community and a clear objective, which ended with the accomplishment of that objective?
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That's fine and dandy, but doesn't mean it wasn't a short-sighted conflict.

Edit: Geopolitically, and culturally.
 
zitothebrave said:
Yeah I agree. While there was some support for Iraq War, probably the majority of people supported it, but there was also a massive dissent. I was a Freshman in highschool around that time so my knowledge of the world was young and I was against it. And as someone who went to a catholic school that seeded heavily from Bush friendly parts of NJ. So I was in the minority with my opinion amongst my peers.
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And now, something a little less anecdotal:

Wikipedia: Public Opinion on the Iraq War

In May 2003, a Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and USA Today concluded that 79% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified, with or without conclusive evidence of illegal weapons.

--

Internationally, is a completely different story, of course.
 
I think one other consideration is that the most recent wars we had fought were largely successful. The first Iraq war and at that point the Afghan war was going well.
 
Hawk said:
That's fine and dandy, but doesn't mean it wasn't a short-sighted conflict.

Edit: Geopolitically, and culturally.
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Yes, it was in both senses. There were never what I would call well-developed war aims in the entire initiative.
 
50PoundHead said:
Yes, it was in both senses. There were never what I would call well-developed war aims in the entire initiative.
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Yeah, sorry, I meant that. Grammar.

Should've said, "but that doesn't mean it still wasn't a short-sighted conflict.'
 
weso1 said:
I think one other consideration is that the most recent wars we had fought were largely successful. The first Iraq war and at that point the Afghan war was going well.
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So in other words, if you have money you should simply spend it because you have enjoyed what you bought with your money before. That's like continuing to drive drunk simply because you haven't had an accident or been stopped yet.

The first Iraq war had some grounds. I believe the Afghan war was simply a reaction to 9/11 and no one would really be able to tell if we won or lost in Afghanistan anyway. If anything, we should have just put more pressure on Pakistan, the country most complicit in the grooming of terrorists. But there was never any real reason to invade Iraq, especially if there was no plan for what was going to happen after the inevitable victory. It was all about toppling a dictator who was easy to hate. In the process, we gave ourselves war fatigue that will last the generation and have pretty much exhausted any good will we might have had to help shape the Arab spring.
 
50PoundHead said:
So in other words, if you have money you should simply spend it because you have enjoyed what you bought with your money before. That's like continuing to drive drunk simply because you haven't had an accident or been stopped yet.

The first Iraq war had some grounds. I believe the Afghan war was simply a reaction to 9/11 and no one would really be able to tell if we won or lost in Afghanistan anyway. If anything, we should have just put more pressure on Pakistan, the country most complicit in the grooming of terrorists. But there was never any real reason to invade Iraq, especially if there was no plan for what was going to happen after the inevitable victory. It was all about toppling a dictator who was easy to hate. In the process, we gave ourselves war fatigue that will last the generation and have pretty much exhausted any good will we might have had to help shape the Arab spring.
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I didn't mean that it was a reason to go to war. I just meant that it made people more willing to agree to go to war because it added to the belief that it wouldn't be a long drawn out war.

And there was a reason to invade Iraq, it just turned out to not actually be true. Whether it was a lie or not I'll let the board foreign policy experts figure that out.
 
weso1 said:
Look I get why people don't like him and how he messed up. It's well deserved. But just put those things aside in this thread if you will be so kind. Maybe we can just discuss the subject of this thread since we all know what Bush was now as a President.

So here it is:

Imo, he delivered one of the best modern day speeches in relative modern history when he delivered his famous bullhorn speech at the fallen towers. The lines he delivered on the cuff were exactly what the country needed to hear at the time and the delivery was perfection. And it was clearly off the cuff. I still get chills listening to it. What are some others thoughts not of G-Dub in particular, but this particular speech?
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If only the My Pet Goat hadn't been there for all to see. But yes, I'll agree, it was great to see him in that moment.

I hate the Iraq scenario, but I don't get the feeling that was really "his" plan. Most of these poor presidents are paid puppets. "W" seems like a good guy.

I miss the Bush/Clinton years just for the fun factor. They were both so much fun to make fun of. Darrell Hammond's Clinton was priceless.

120809_snl_clinton_ap_328_605.jpg
 
City of Mosul falls, security forces flee the city after intense violence from insurgents takes over and pushes police and security out.
 
"One thing about g-dub"

....have to give him props for that first pitch he threw out after 9/11. World Series, in NY, the country's watching, dude has a bullet proof vest on, strike right down the pipe. That was pretty badass. Probably the highlight of his presidency, IMO.
 
Krgrecw said:
This is on Obama. He pulled the troops out.
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LOL. 13 years in Afghanistan, what would've been 11 years in Iraq to this day, but was actually 8 years.

We can't even afford to support our vets when they come home, and peeps like you want us to be there forever.
 
acesfull86 said:
"One thing about g-dub"

....have to give him props for that first pitch he threw out after 9/11. World Series, in NY, the country's watching, dude has a bullet proof vest on, strike right down the pipe. That was pretty badass. Probably the highlight of his presidency, IMO.
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Quite sad when that's the highlight... in his first full year in office compared to 8. I mean not gonna lie it was a great moment for the country and for him but it says a lot when that's what to give him high praise for.
 
KeithLockhart said:
LOL. 13 years in Afghanistan, what would've been 11 years in Iraq to this day, but was actually 8 years.

We can't even afford to support our vets when they come home, and peeps like you want us to be there forever.[

Curious as to how the recent turmoil in Iraq isn't Obamas fault? He calls the plays. He has final say.
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Krgrecw said:
KeithLockhart said:
LOL. 13 years in Afghanistan, what would've been 11 years in Iraq to this day, but was actually 8 years.

We can't even afford to support our vets when they come home, and peeps like you want us to be there forever.[

Curious as to how the recent turmoil in Iraq isn't Obamas fault? He calls the plays. He has final say.
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Doesn't matter if it's "his fault". The fact you actually wanted us to stay is proof that you and millions more were ready to continue a war that had no end or no actual end game.
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