Bowe and Bob Bergdahl

BedellBrave said:
Totally? No. Do I believe after being immersed in Pashto and Arabic for 5 years that he's struggling with English? You better believe it.
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I really don't believe that. I don't believe he would just forgot his native language that he spoke for his entire life.
 
Guy crawled under the razor wire that surrounded his platoons firebase with food, water, knife and a cell phone. Next day Bergdahl called his platoon to say he was walking away.

14 soliders died tried trying to find him.

Clean him up and charge him with desertion.
 
BedellBrave said:
I'm not saying you should. My posts in this thread have been more about Bowe and Bob. Again, I've got my questions and my concerns about the transaction (i.e., it's legality and wisdom). I hope there's more going on than meets the eye. I hope there is good actionable intel that results from this. But I also hope we are out of there sooner, rather than later, a lot sooner.
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I agree with you on the double B's. That's not something we should rush to judgement on, but we shouldn't let that get in the way of the truth. What's the full story here? That important, but unfortunately it might be secretive. Who do I trust in this and any administration for that matter? I think you agree with me. A very difficult position to be in for the average citizen.
 
Krgrecw said:
Guy crawled under the razor wire that surrounded his platoons firebase with food, water, knife and a cell phone. Next day Bergdahl called his platoon to say he was walking away.

14 soliders died tried trying to find him.

Clean him up and charge him with desertion.
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I'm trying to be as fair as I can here, but I will say I would be very saddened and very upset if my son or daughter died trying to find a deserter.
 
weso1 said:
I agree with you on the double B's. That's not something we should rush to judgement on, but we shouldn't let that get in the way of the truth. What's the full story here? That important, but unfortunately it might be secretive. Who do I trust in this and any administration for that matter? I think you agree with me. A very difficult position to be in for the average citizen.
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Agreed.
 
weso1 said:
Do the liberals on this board truly not have some concerns about this deal? I wonder if they will ever be honest with themselves.
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I guess I'll speak up as the liberal. We shouldn't be in Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria or any other number of states. I don't care if we let people out of guantanamo the more people out of that illegal prison the better. Maybe we should go back to Teddy's speak softly and carry a big stick rather than the Reagan/Cold War method of occupying the world.
 
zitothebrave said:
I guess I'll speak up as the liberal. We shouldn't be in Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria or any other number of states. I don't care if we let people out of guantanamo the more people out of that illegal prison the better. Maybe we should go back to Teddy's speak softly and carry a big stick rather than the Reagan/Cold War method of occupying the world.
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Than should we also pull all the troops out of South Korea, Philippines, Colombia, Cuba, Australia, Kuwait, Germany, Poland, and Japan? Was it wrong to send in military to help locate the 300 kidnapped girls?

The world would be a lot worse place if America didn't keep peace
 
Link. I am friends with Glenn, their former pastor.

Here's what he's stated publicly:

"Now, supposedly, Bowe is a traitor, Bob is a "Muslim sleeper," and terrorists have been released to threaten the USA.

Let me point out:

1) Only Bowe Bergdahl knows the exact circumstances of his capture. Though it may have been foolish for him to walk a few yards away from his bunker in Eastern Afghanistan, he hardly had the liberty to return the next morning. So, could he be charged or convicted of desertion? If it was a foolish act, he has paid a heavy price for his his actions. The military will sort out these matters. Bowe may prove an invaluable source of intelligence of Taliban activities over the last five years.

2) At the dissolution of Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church (OPC) in Boise last year, Bob and Janil were members in good standing. Though Bob tends toward Libertarian political views, reads Calvin and Rushdoony, questions some aspects of US Middle-eastern foreign and military policy, isn't that what being an American is about... the right to question our government and its actions, and to hold strange views, even to be a Calvinist or Theonomist or Libertarian? To the best of my knowledge, Bob has been a desperate father trying to learn as much about his son's captors in a time when he never knew if he'd see him alive again.

If Bob were a Muslim, would we rejoice any less in the return of a son and brother from five years captivity, when whether he was alive or dead, and how he was treated, was unknown?

I remember Bob's concern for the salvation of his son when he was captured. He told me, "I pray as much for his conversion to Christ as I do for his life to be spared."

3) Are the Guantanamo detainees POWs or criminals? If criminals, give them fair trials and if convicted impose a just sentence. If POWs, there will come a time when they will all be released; which is normal in the cessation of hostilities. So, if they are going to eventually be released, didn't it make sense to get something for five of them. Prisoner exchanges are often part of most wars. Israel, a few years ago, released a thousand Palestinian prisoners to obtain the release of one of their soldiers. I given the president some credit for taking bold and potentially controversial action to save Bowe's life and return him home.

One can certainly disagree on this latter matter and still be glad an American soldier has been released.

Can't these conspiracy accusers shut up for a week or two and let the Bergdahls enjoy having their son, who once seemed dead and is yet alive, safe in American hands?"

Maybe B & B Bergdahl are our what our worst imaginations tell us. Maybe they are. And if so, then they will face the consequences. But I pause and think, how would I have responded had I walked in either of their shoes? I don't know honestly. I've had growing reservations about our long term commitment in Afghanistan. I know very conservative, patriotic, men who have done tours of duty in Afghanistan. They certainly didn't dessert. But they also came back a bit more "nuanced" shall we say about our presence there. And as far as Bob is concerned - dude has been a grieving father. I can't imagine what it felt like.

But go ahead and try them in the court of public opinion. It's inevitable I suppose.
 
The dad doesn't really concern me what so ever.

The son on the other hand has cost 14 families dearly. I'd say that needs our utmost attention and scrutiny don't you think?
 
BedellBrave said:
Link.

1) Only Bowe Bergdahl knows the exact circumstances of his capture. Though it may have been foolish for him to walk a few yards away from his bunker in Eastern Afghanistan, he hardly had the liberty to return the next morning. So, could he be charged or convicted of desertion? If it was a foolish act, he has paid a heavy price for his his actions. The military will sort out these matters. Bowe may prove an invaluable source of intelligence of Taliban activities over the last five years.

Every indication is that he voluntarily walked off the base. He sent his belongings home, he was walking around asking the villagers how to reach the Taliban. This isn't the case of a soldier accidently walking off base and getting lost; then captured. That part is pretty damn clear.

2) At the dissolution of Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church (OPC) in Boise last year, Bob and Janil were members in good standing. Though Bob tends toward Libertarian political views, reads Calvin and Rushdoony, questions some aspects of US Middle-eastern foreign and military policy, isn't that what being an American is about... the right to question our government and its actions, and to hold strange views, even to be a Calvinist or Theonomist or Libertarian? To the best of my knowledge, Bob has been a desperate father trying to learn as much about his son's captors in a time when he never knew if he'd see him alive again.

No issue questioning our government.

If Bob were a Muslim, would we rejoice any less in the return of a son and brother from five years captivity, when whether he was alive or dead, and how he was treated, was unknown?

I won't blindly cheer for the return of the guy and consider him a hero.

3) Are the Guantanamo detainees POWs or criminals? If criminals, give them fair trials and if convicted impose a just sentence. If POWs, there will come a time when they will all be released; which is normal in the cessation of hostilities. So, if they are going to eventually be released, didn't it make sense to get something for five of them. Prisoner exchanges are often part of most wars. Israel, a few years ago, released a thousand Palestinian prisoners to obtain the release of one of their soldiers. I given the president some credit for taking bold and potentially controversial action to save Bowe's life and return him home.

Whether it was the right thing or the wrong thing, Obama 100% broke the law on this one. Obama doesn't work for himself, he works for the American people. He doesn't get to make this decisions alone.

One can certainly disagree on this latter matter and still be glad an American soldier has been released.

If he willingly (and signs point to it) walked off the base, I don't give one **** if he is returned home or not. As for his "punishment for the last 5 years," what about the 6 (or was it 14 deaths) he directly caused? Should he be punished for costing people their lives?

Can't these conspiracy accusers shut up for a week or two and let the Bergdahls enjoy having their son, who once seemed dead and is yet alive, safe in American hands?"

This doesn't appear to be a conspiracy at all. The facts are on the table.

Maybe B & B Bergdahl are our what our worst imaginations tell us. Maybe they are. And if so, then they will face the consequences. '

This is doubtful. People want a story about a hero (which is why even people on the mission to save this guy were lied to about the circumstances surrounding his disappearance and were forced to sign non disclosure agreements

But I pause and think, how would I have responded had I walked in either of their shoes? I don't know honestly. I've had growing reservations about our long term commitment in Afghanistan. I know very conservative, patriotic, men who have done tours of duty in Afghanistan. They certainly didn't dessert. But they also came back a bit more "nuanced" shall we say about our presence there. And as far as Bob is concerned - dude has been a grieving father. I can't imagine what it felt like.

I don't want them over there any more than the rest of people. I have good friends over there risking their lives everyday instead of being at home with their kids. Plenty question why we are over there.....but each one of them does the duty they signed up for.

As for his grieving father, I feel bad for him. However, his son made a choice.

But go ahead and try them in the court of public opinion. It's inevitable I suppose.
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Why should we blindly support this guy?
 
Taliban said that Bergdahl was an active collaborator who taught them how to make bombs. Army say he faces desertion charges.
 
BedellBrave said:
Who in this thread is saying "blindly support this guy?"
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Nobody that I'm aware of. Certainly not you.

Personally, I'd be content if the matter was left to rest. On the other hand, if the military brings a case against him, so be it. It may be inevitable, and it will probably be just. But none of us are qualified or informed enough to opine on what he experienced during his captivity. None of us can truly put ourselves in his shoes, and some of us aren't even willing to contemplate it.

Taliban said that Bergdahl was an active collaborator who taught them how to make bombs.

Perhaps we should think twice before accepting the assertions of the Taliban, absent any evidence. Maybe that evidence will come to light, but until it does . . .
 
Julio3000 said:
Nobody that I'm aware of. Certainly not you.

Personally, I'd be content if the matter was left to rest. On the other hand, if the military brings a case against him, so be it. It may be inevitable, and it will probably be just. But none of us are qualified or informed enough to opine on what he experienced during his captivity. None of us can truly put ourselves in his shoes, and some of us aren't even willing to contemplate it.

Taliban said that Bergdahl was an active collaborator who taught them how to make bombs.

Perhaps we should think twice before accepting the assertions of the Taliban, absent any evidence. Maybe that evidence will come to light, but until it does . . .
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Fair post.

Though, if what we've read is true...deserter, disillusioned with America then he cost several soldiers their lives and 5 years in Taliban captivity (if it was even that) isn't enough.
 
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