A Part Of Our Legacy

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"The last day of Qaraqosh’s time as a Christian town, a time almost as old as Christianity itself, began with a mortar shell at nine in the morning.

It came through the roof of Melad and Marven Abdullah’s house on Wednesday, killing them instantly. Melad was nine; his cousin, Marven, four. The mortar struck Marven in the head as it landed. They found his arms and feet, crushed against the wall, but nothing else.

The family’s next-door neighbour, Enam Eshoo, had popped in to deliver some fresh drinking water; she too died where she fell.

The day ended with an order to evacuate. Within a couple of hours, the city’s tens of thousands of inhabitants were crowding the road to Kurdistan, fighting with troops manning checkpoints, trying to find shelter where they could.
The streets of the capital Erbil’s newly Christian suburb, Ainkawa, swelled by exiles from ten years of punishing terror and oppression in northern Iraq, are now full of stunned and helpless people. They are camping on the floors of church halls, in a building site, in the street. An old woman was sleeping in a flower bed. Another begged for help...."
 
BedellBrave said:
Read more carefully - I have stated that the ISIS is attacking Christians and Yazidis and other minorities. And I have no problem with you saying that ISIS is doing what they are doing because of their religious beliefs; but you wanted to make it a more blanket attack against religion in general and that was just pathetic. It's the same pathetic clap trap of the Dawkins and Hitchens of the world.
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Projecting a bit there, Bedell. And, I might add, being targeted doesn't suddenly make all your kookie beliefs valid. I know that's why you religious people always play the victim--validation--but it doesn't change reality, not even when some of you actually become a real victim. I'm not suddenly going to ignore everything ISIS does if they settle down and stop doing it for a bit and people start attacking them. It doesn't make their kookie beliefs valid. It doesn't make what they are doing right now okay. It doesn't mean you should forget about their atrocities when they are victims sometime in the future. Religion is poisonous. Theirs just happens to be doing the most physical damage right now.
 
BedellBrave said:
Still crickets from the bash-Israel crowd.
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Perhaps it's because you actually think we support Hamas, when it's the opposite.

I don't support what Israel is doing, especially how they're handling the media like Hannity giving a softball interview to Netanyahu that was even more slow pitch than he or Van Susteren has ever given to Palin.

Don't think anybody here supports what ISIS is doing or why they're doing it. If you think we are, that's because of your own personal bias'.

Israel is stronger, bigger, and more powerful than Hamas is, but you'd think this was a 50/50 fight right now when it's not because of how the media is playing it and how much Israel is "desperate" to defend themselves

Israel is a state government, doing their own style of population control, while ISIS is just a fanatical extremist group doing their own cleansing because the puppet government we set up in Iraq is too weak to do anything like stopping this crisis.

Perhaps we should've stayed in Iraq instead of pulling out?
 
Finally! Now, who will be next?

Oh and ISIS and Hamas - cut from the same material - radical, jihadi Sunni groups. And all of the Middle East and Northern Africa is faced with them.
 
BedellBrave said:
Finally! Now, who will be next?

Oh and ISIS and Hamas - cut from the same material - radical, jihadi Sunni groups. And all of the Middle East and Northern Africa is faced with them.
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Isis is still relatively new. Hamas has been organized for a few decades. Isis is the new flavor of the month.

The fact you think we are defending them in a similar manner is hilarious.
 
They are both Brotherhood-linked organizations and have a long history, albeit different 'names.'

Why don't you speak out against their atrocities, their hatred?
 
BedellBrave said:
They are both Brotherhood-linked organizations and have a long history, albeit different 'names.'

Why don't you speak out against their atrocities, their hatred?
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Because for the same reason I don't agree with our foreign policy tactics of trying to win over the moderates and those who aren't looking to kill us.

Those extremist groups you listed are that. Extremist, and they are only empowered and gain support by moderates and innocents when we civilized nations like USA and Israel do things like justify killing innocents at a 10/20:1 terrorist ratio. And then claim we're better than them because we're free and civilized.

Why don't I speak out on them? Because one of the few things I agree with sturg and Ron Paul about, is our self-inflicted wounds with middle east foreign policy that dates back the last century. We keep trying to patch our self-inflicted gun shots with bandaids. I don't endorse their atrocities, nor do I agree with them. I do in-fact believe they're abhorrent.

We cannot ever win and have peace there if we keep going into these situations thinking we're the cowboys and that we can do no wrong, and any collateral damage to come out of it, we're absolved of any blame because we're the good guys.

Conservatives in this country are just as hungry for muslim blood over there as the extremists are for freedom blood, and behind the veil of "they hate us because of our freedom" lay the "Christians are better than Muslims" subconscious which will continue the vicious cycle of violence. Just as Dalyn said, religion is only instigating most of the violence there. Many people I know took the 9/11 and War On Terror as "Muslims attacking our Christian Nation, so we need to give these countries a western style Christian Democracy".
 
MLK didn't resort to violence to get rights or what he wanted. White people back then threatened blacks on the same scale the extremist muslims threaten us. They want to kill us and hang us by our necks.

As goldfly has stated here plenty, we had the opportunity to make something great out of the post-9/11 aftermath. Instead we riled up the war machine, and instead of taking advantage of the fact everyone in the world sympathized for our losses on 9/11, we go and piss off the rest of the world with the Bush Cowboy mentality of ok you don't like us? Well let me force you to taste some of our freedom.

But it's Obama's fault.
 
BedellBrave said:
When do you not turn a blind eye to atrocities?
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No idea why you keep using the term blind eye.

I'm quite aware of what's going on, whether it's because you post some link on here, or it's all over the interwebs, especially a place like reddit.

I choose to go after Israel because they're 100x more civilized than Hamas, yet they choose to be just as dirty and vicious as Hamas. Cannot say you're better than your enemy, when you've stooped down to their level.

The worst is all the Christians on my Facebook saying it's ok that Israel is killing innocent Palestinian women and children, because Hamas are bad. The irony in that statement is all sorts of sad. Especially because they're the same pro-life crowd, but I guess that doesn't apply to innocent children of a religion you aren't a fan of.
 
BJ#1FAN said:
1. Because for the same reason I don't agree with our foreign policy tactics of trying to win over the moderates and those who aren't looking to kill us.

2. Those extremist groups you listed are that. Extremist, and they are only empowered and gain support by moderates and innocents when we civilized nations like USA and Israel do things like justify killing innocents at a 10/20:1 terrorist ratio. And then claim we're better than them because we're free and civilized.

3. Why don't I speak out on them? Because one of the few things I agree with sturg and Ron Paul about, is our self-inflicted wounds with middle east foreign policy that dates back the last century. We keep trying to patch our self-inflicted gun shots with bandaids. I don't endorse their atrocities, nor do I agree with them. I do in-fact believe they're abhorrent.

4. We cannot ever win and have peace there if we keep going into these situations thinking we're the cowboys and that we can do no wrong, and any collateral damage to come out of it, we're absolved of any blame because we're the good guys.

5. Conservatives in this country are just as hungry for muslim blood over there as the extremists are for freedom blood, and behind the veil of "they hate us because of our freedom" lay the "Christians are better than Muslims" subconscious which will continue the vicious cycle of violence. Just as Dalyn said, religion is only instigating most of the violence there. Many people I know took the 9/11 and War On Terror as "Muslims attacking our Christian Nation, so we need to give these countries a western style Christian Democracy".
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1. You don't want to win the hearts of the moderates? You don't want to be allied with them? Why not?

2. That's not the only way - hopefully, that was just hyperbole on your part, because if it wasn't then you just evidence the same Western colonialism that can't really come to grip with the fact that there really are evil people in this world, instead you only want to find excuses for their evil (i.e., it's always someone else's fault). But I will agree to the point that asymmetrical retaliation can fuel more hatred. Of course it can also finally break the will of thugs and those who back them (as is at the present seemingly happening with Gazan public opinion of Hamas). In other words - things are more complicated than I think you want to have them.

3. Glad you think they are abhorrent. And are now denouncing them. This is progress.

4. How is sending medical, food and water relief being a "cowboy"? How are airstrikes against those poised to destroy the innocent being a "cowboy"? If that's being a cowboy, sign me up. Acting if there are no "bad guys" is a fool's game.

5. Pretty telling that you are more afraid of what conservatives might think than for the actual life and death plight of people other than Gazans being killed by Israelis. Oh, tell me, were the Yazidi or the Christians in Northern Iraq seeking to behead Sunnis? Again, it's not hard to make some general distinctives. And the tired old "religion is poisonous" line is so lazy and self-righteous. Do people perpetuate violence in religious causes? Sure. But they do so in "non-religious" (yeah right) causes as well (can anyone say "guillotine" or "gulag"?). That's no excuse to act as if we are talking about morally equivalent groups - ISIS morally = the Yazidi & Christian Iraqis.
 
#1, I was referring to our tactics... of continuing to bomb and kill innocents in the name of collateral damage, and expecting the moderates to be OK and love us anyways.

#4, obviously I'm not referring to dropping off the food and such this week. I'm referring to policy that has dated back well before this century started.

#5, obviously we disagree on the extent of religion inciting violence, and it's not just relegated to Islam. While modern day islamic extremists have taken the methods to another level, it's not crazy to think that Christian arrogance displayed by the West, the USA in particular, instigates some problems.
 
BJ#1FAN said:
No idea why you keep using the term blind eye.

I'm quite aware of what's going on, whether it's because you post some link on here, or it's all over the interwebs, especially a place like reddit.

I choose to go after Israel because they're 100x more civilized than Hamas, yet they choose to be just as dirty and vicious as Hamas. Cannot say you're better than your enemy, when you've stooped down to their level.

The worst is all the Christians on my Facebook saying it's ok that Israel is killing innocent Palestinian women and children, because Hamas are bad. The irony in that statement is all sorts of sad. Especially because they're the same pro-life crowd, but I guess that doesn't apply to innocent children of a religion you aren't a fan of.
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Oh, it applies to all. And once again, those who are shown to have ordered and those who have fired missiles intended to kill Palestinian civilians should be held accountable.

But don't let your spite for those you don't agree with on Facebook, keep you from humanely speaking out on behalf of the innocent. You know it's not an either/or decision. You can speak out against Israel, Hamas and ISIS. It's okay.
 
BJ#1FAN said:
#1, I was referring to our tactics... of continuing to bomb and kill innocents in the name of collateral damage, and expecting the moderates to be OK and love us anyways.

#4, obviously I'm not referring to dropping off the food and such this week. I'm referring to policy that has dated back well before this century started.

#5, obviously we disagree on the extent of religion inciting violence, and it's not just relegated to Islam. While modern day islamic extremists have taken the methods to another level, it's not crazy to think that Christian arrogance displayed by the West, the USA in particular, instigates some problems.
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Do we disagree that the non-religious (again, yeah right) also instigate violence?
 
Obama says Islam is a religion of peace, right wing social media attacks him for saying as such.

You think there's not an underlying Christian vs. Islam sentiment on those comment attacks?

It's bad enough a certain amount of the right wing thinks he's muslim, what's worse is they think he's conspiring everything to turn this into a muslim country by working with Al Qaeda and the Brotherhood, etc.
 
Question for you BJ and for the libertarians, when should you (or the USA) not turn a blind eye to genocidal acts in the world?
 
BJ#1FAN said:
Obama says Islam is a religion of peace, right wing social media attacks him for saying as such.

You think there's not an underlying Christian vs. Islam sentiment on those comment attacks?

It's bad enough a certain amount of the right wing thinks he's muslim, what's worse is they think he's conspiring everything to turn this into a muslim country by working with Al Qaeda and the Brotherhood, etc.
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This isn't about the President - other than I am grateful for his willingness to do something here.

Again, why must your fear of what the right wing thinks, says or does, inhibit you from speaking out against Israel, Hamas and ISIS, and speaking up and advocating relief and protections for both Gazans and Iraqi minorities?
 
BedellBrave said:
Oh, it applies to all. And once again, those who are shown to have ordered and those who have fired missiles intended to kill Palestinian civilians should be held accountable.

But don't let your spite for those you don't agree with on Facebook, keep you from humanely speaking out on behalf of the innocent. You know it's not an either/or decision. You can speak out against Israel, Hamas and ISIS. It's okay.
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Speaking against Hamas and ISIS would be redundant, just as speaking about Al Qaeda is redundant since we've been doing it in this country for 13 years.

I don't need to wave it in your face that I don't like what they're doing. The problem I have is the tactics western countries are using to try and eliminate the problem. Do you agree that we're never going to get rid of Hamas, Al Aqaeda, and ISIS, as long as we keep hurting innocents? Do you agree that the more we kill muslim innocents in collateral damage, that it's only going to encourage more innocents to turn into bad guys? Or are you of the belief we just keep shooting and bombing until we wipe them out (which is not going to happen).

If Jesus were alive today, he wouldn't be leading the calvary to kill all these muslims. He'd probably take all the fire in his direction to prevent more people from being killed.

You want equal blame, just like conservatives who think 98% to 2% in the scientific community is "up for debate" on climate change.
 
BedellBrave said:
Question for you BJ and for the libertarians, when should you (or the USA) not turn a blind eye to genocidal acts in the world?
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$$$

We can't even afford to take care of our own here, so at some point we're going to have to look in the mirror and say we can't save everyone.

Pick and choose your battles, not fight all of them.
 
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