Report: Rockies GM O'Dowd rumored for Braves posiiton

Dalyn said:
A Christian organization. You said it. And I want no part of a man who builds his BASEBALL team around something completely separate from baseball.
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Ok, that's fair enough. That can cloud judgment. However, O'Dowd has proven to be an ineffective GM as a whole regardless of the religion thing.
 
Dalyn said:
What part of basically is hard for you to understand? What part of my clarification, where I said, "Sure. They may have had some non-Christian players, but they created a Christian clubhouse with Christian ideals regarding morality and actively searched for personnel who fit that approach," is hard for you to understand?
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Because that's a lot different than saying he only wanted Christians on the team.
 
Garmel said:
We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I don't see it that way. *shrugs*
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So you read all those quotes I posted from players and personnel for the Rockies and other people who dealt directly with O'Dowd and you came away with the idea that he's just a Christian but doesn't let that have anything to do with picking/liking/developing players?
 
Dalyn said:
So you read all those quotes I posted from players and personnel for the Rockies and other people who dealt directly with O'Dowd and came away with the idea that he's just a Christian but doesn't let that have anything to do with picking/liking/developing players?
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Not necessarily. How does he know the religious affiliation(if any) of all the people he's picking how of HS/College? Does he ask them point blank like that? Is there any proof he's doing that?
 
Garmel said:
Not necessarily. How does he know the religious affiliation(if any) of all the people he's picking how of HS/College? Does he ask them point blank like that? Is there any proof he's doing that?
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I'm sure he doesn't ask people. That would be stupid. He just creates an environment where non-religious people wouldn't feel comfortable. That's what it sounds like.
 
Dalyn said:
I'm sure he doesn't ask people. That would be stupid. He just creates an environment where non-religious people wouldn't feel comfortable. That's what it sounds like.
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Well, the Jewish guy in the NYT article said, "There are guys who are religious, sure, but they don’t impress it upon anybody,” Hirsh said. He said that he feels comfortable there as well. As long as they're not pushing Christianity I have no problem with what they're doing. However, I will throw you a bone, Dylan and say I don't think that's a way to run a team. Personally, I don't care if my entire team were worshiping Jobu or Cthulhu. As long as they can hit/pitch I don't give a ****.
 
Garmel said:
Well, the Jewish guy in the NYT article said, "There are guys who are religious, sure, but they don’t impress it upon anybody,” Hirsh said. He said that he feels comfortable there as well. If they're not pushing Christianity I have no problem with what they're doing. However, I will throw you a bone, Dylan and say I don't think that's a way to run a team. Personally, I don't care if my entire team weres worshiping Jobu or Cthulhu as long as they can hit/pitch I don't give a ****.
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And then you have someone saying -

"They have a great group of guys over there, but I've never been in a clubhouse where Christianity is the main purpose," says San Francisco Giants first baseman-outfielder Mark Sweeney, a veteran of seven organizations who spent 2003 and 2004 with the Rockies. "You wonder if some people are going along with it just to keep their jobs.

"Look, I pray every day," Sweeney says. "I have faith. It's always been part of my life. But I don't want something forced on me. Do they really have to check to see whether I have a Playboy in my locker?"

Sounds like he felt uncomfortable. And I feel compelled to add that both the quotes mentioned (from you and from me) are from religious people. Where are the non-religious Rockies?
 
Dalyn said:
And then you have someone saying -

"They have a great group of guys over there, but I've never been in a clubhouse where Christianity is the main purpose," says San Francisco Giants first baseman-outfielder Mark Sweeney, a veteran of seven organizations who spent 2003 and 2004 with the Rockies. "You wonder if some people are going along with it just to keep their jobs.

"Look, I pray every day," Sweeney says. "I have faith. It's always been part of my life. But I don't want something forced on me. Do they really have to check to see whether I have a Playboy in my locker?"

Sounds like he felt uncomfortable. And I feel compelled to add that both the quotes mentioned (from you and from me) are from religious people. Where are the non-religious Rockies?
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He's the only guy that I've seen yet that's complained about it. Also, I'm sure there are plenty of clubs that have Playboy(which is porn) banned from the clubhouse that is not based on religion. A lot of the secular left finds it as disgusting as the right does but for different reasons. Degrading to women is one of them.
 
Garmel said:
He's the only guy that I've seen yet that's complained about it. Also, I'm sure there are plenty of clubs that have Playboy(which is porn) banned from the clubhouse that is not based on religion. A lot of the secular left finds it as disgusting as the right does but for different reasons. Degrading to women is one of them.
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It isn't just about Playboy being banned. Or even about them checking lockers for it like they are dealing with a bunch of teenagers. It's also about posting scriptures in the clubhouse and **** like that. Obviously, I guess we are going to differ on that, but I don't see how anyone can look at all the things the Rockies have said and not conclude that they do their best to have a Christian organization with Christians or people who pretend to be, with a few stray members of other religions so they don't get called out on it.
 
There's always been religious guys in the clubhouse. I don't know if it's any different now than it has been since the 1970s. Here's an old article from 1981 about how it can have both a positive and negative effect in a clubhouse. Bob Knepper was something else.

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/1981/05/10/sports/religion-becomes-an-important-part-of-baseball-scene.html

I think there's a big difference between Christians in the clubhouse (which there has always been and always will be) and a Christian clubhouse, which is something entirely different.
 
50PoundHead said:
There's always been religious guys in the clubhouse. I don't know if it's any different now than it has been since the 1970s. Here's an old article from 1981 about how it can have both a positive and negative effect in a clubhouse. Bob Knepper was something else.

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/1981/05/10/sports/religion-becomes-an-important-part-of-baseball-scene.html

I think there's a big difference between Christians in the clubhouse (which there has always been and always will be) and a Christian clubhouse, which is something entirely different.
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I certainly agree with that. I don't think it should matter whether you are Christian, Muslim, or a Scientologist: it should be about how well you play baseball.
 
The Rockies have Tulo and CarGo but IMO they're a mess. I don't know what it is, but they can't find pitchers at all. If O'Dowd is responsible for that, then that's reason #1 right there to not want him.
 
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O'Dowd may be the worst of Hart's protégé's but the only one who'd actually bite on what looks like a bad job to take right now. Or maybe the reporter doesn't know a damn thing.

I'd suspect that O'Dowd biases re religion have cause him to not make some moves that could have made his team better.
I've seen it happen in business.
 
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