So... what now? Season is over and Hart broke our hearts.

emk418 said:
Don't get your hopes up. There's no way Fredi is fired.
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They are not when Bobby is involved. It is his best friend and protege'.

That is why I said keep him away.

But as a consolation prize, I can stomach Fredi if we get rid of twins of horror...Walker and Fletcher. Seriously, what is their primary job? Whatever it was they did failed and failed miserably.

If Fredi was forced to play BJ and lead him off, or force to play CJ the K machine, force to play strUgggla because of Wren, I will give him a pass because a manager cannot manage if his boss is making him do things he doesn't want. And I believe Wren told him to do it. Everybody from this board to Baseball Tonight wonder why BJ was leading off for so long.

If he comes out and say I will manage the way I want, maybe I will put down the firehose, but I still want the horror twins gone.
 
AerchAngel said:
They are not when Bobby is involved. It is his best friend and protege'.

That is why I said keep him away.

But as a consolation prize, I can stomach Fredi if we get rid of twins of horror...Walker and Fletcher. Seriously, what is their primary job? Whatever it was they did failed and failed miserably.

If Fredi was forced to play BJ and lead him off, or force to play CJ the K machine, force to play strUgggla because of Wren, I will give him a pass because a manager cannot manage if his boss is making him do things he doesn't want. And I believe Wren told him to do it. Everybody from this board to Baseball Tonight wonder why BJ was leading off for so long.

If he comes out and say I will manage the way I want, maybe I will put down the firehose, but I still want the horror twins gone.
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Ive been one of Fredi's biggest critics but this does have some merit. Remember I threw out there when Wren was let go that he essentially forced Bobby out and bring someone in to be Wrens yes-man.

Since then it is pretty well known that Wren and Bobby were at odds, amongst others in the FO.

About 6 weeks ago the braves had a Wednesday night game on ESPN in which the announcers were talking about Fredi making the comment about more speed and run manufacturing needs to take place to win in this new era of baseball and less in the long ball. Doesn't sound anything like our roster does it? Lots of disconnect from the FO and the team on the field.

We don't know for sure, but we do know that Uggla and BJ were Wrwns to biggest and glamorous and expensive acquisitions along with Lowe, and each and everyone of those guys were out there everyday put in more prominent roles for long periods of time to straighten things out and make Wren look good.

From an organizational stand point it made sense to stick with them up to a point, but it didn't seem that there ever was a end in sight and it cost us dearly.

What if Fredi was under instruction to not pitch a valuable long term piece multiple innings in an elimination game?

We don't know, but we do know is there seemed to be a lot of tension and disconnect within this organization the past few years.

And as far as JS comment about seeing things starting to deteriorate 3 years ago? I think this is based that a good portion of the brass (advanced scouts, JS, etc) were not on board with the BJ signing but let Wren go against majority and make his own bed. He tried to become a genius but the move failed him miserably.

I mean think about it. An organization like the Braves and their financial position can't take risks like that and tie up that much in a high risk investment especially considering we were already strapped with another hindering contract in Uggla. I betcha a good percentage of upper management was more in favor of a role player acquisition like Pagan, span, Victorino to fill a need.
 
Millwood1Hitter said:
Ive been one of Fredi's biggest critics but this does have some merit. Remember I threw out there when Wren was let go that he essentially forced Bobby out and bring someone in to be Wrens yes-man.

Since then it is pretty well known that Wren and Bobby were at odds, amongst others in the FO.

About 6 weeks ago the braves had a Wednesday night game on ESPN in which the announcers were talking about Fredi making the comment about more speed and run manufacturing needs to take place to win in this new era of baseball and less in the long ball. Doesn't sound anything like our roster does it? Lots of disconnect from the FO and the team on the field.

We don't know for sure, but we do know that Uggla and BJ were Wrwns to biggest and glamorous and expensive acquisitions along with Lowe, and each and everyone of those guys were out there everyday put in more prominent roles for long periods of time to straighten things out and make Wren look good.

From an organizational stand point it made sense to stick with them up to a point, but it didn't seem that there ever was a end in sight and it cost us dearly.

What if Fredi was under instruction to not pitch a valuable long term piece multiple innings in an elimination game?

We don't know, but we do know is there seemed to be a lot of tension and disconnect within this organization the past few years.

And as far as JS comment about seeing things starting to deteriorate 3 years ago? I think this is based that a good portion of the brass (advanced scouts, JS, etc) were not on board with the BJ signing but let Wren go against majority and make his own bed. He tried to become a genius but the move failed him miserably.

I mean think about it. An organization like the Braves and their financial position can't take risks like that and tie up that much in a high risk investment especially considering we were already strapped with another hindering contract in Uggla. I betcha a good percentage of pure management was more in favor of a role player acquisition like Pagan, span, Victorino to fill a need.
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Wow, one of the best posts in a while. I can only henpeck. I had major emergency hernia (almost ruptured) surgery and because of the anesthesia I have Cubital Tunnel Syndrome, which renders my left hand basically useless when typing. I wanted to type something what you did because I agree with everything you said and it make sense.

oh I am right handed and that is why I wanted it done on the left because this is known to happen. good call by me or i would be in a world of hurt right now. Having no use of one hand and being a computer program would be total hell at work.
 
AerchAngel said:
I will finish YNOT when I can type with my left hand. They botched the IV for anesthesia (Ulna nerve issues) so I am henpecking that is why I don't post. Nevermind me.

Hart bringing him back means Bobby had some say so in it meaning our hitting coaches will be back. I guess they think they can turn this around.

What do you think about it?

We need new coaches to fix Simmons and Freeman, 144 k's is a lot for a pure hitter that we thought. Heyward k's were less than a hundred but his homers were way down, so how do we approach that?

I do think BJ will be better next year, just a feeling I have unless someone takes him which I would gladly do. I would eat CJ contract and give him away, I do not like him at all.

If an AL team want Gattis, ship him please. He doesn't adjust enough for me.
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Last I knew Freemen was not one of our problems. Maybe I'm mistaken
 
zitothebrave said:
BObby made some very questionable moves. But he won, and won a lot. I don't think Fredi takes the 2004 or 2005 Braves to the postseason. Bobby was masterful in his maximization that season. His flaw was he bought into the baseball tropes way too often. Veterans perform in the clutch, some guys are "professional hitters" and so on so forth. Anderson was a trainwreck, didn't hit enough offensively and was a butcher defensively, but that 2009 team had a really ****ty OF, so I can understand why Anderson got as much PT as he did. Our OFs that year were Francouer who was traded for Church, Diaz, Anderson,and Schafer who went down and was replaced by McLouth.

My bitch with Bobby that year was the fact that when it was evident that Prado could play, that he didn't move KJ to LF. Not that Kelly was ripping the cover off the ball, but he wouldn't have been a butcher in LF and could have beena better platoon partner for Diaz.
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He had a team most of those years that didn't need a manager and was stocked with Hall of Famers and A+++ talent to be fair...
 
UNCBlue012 said:
Umm... I like Ron Gardenhire... way more than Fredi. Come on!
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Was on the road all day and didn't listen to local radio and was shocked when I got home this evening and found out the Twins had fired Gardenhire. Living in Minnesota, I follow the Twins fairly closely and I was surprised they fired him. If they were going to fire him, I thought they would have done it after the second 90-loss season. I suppose the beef is they did go out and get him a couple of pitchers (Nolasco and Hughes) and things didn't get better.

Gardenhire gets a lot out of second-level players, but he's not particularly good with younger players (which the Twins are going to be for the next couple of seasons). Decent with the bullpen. Uses the whole bench. Makes Bobby Cox look like a MENSA member by comparison when he talks. If Bobby is old school, Gardy is one-room school house.
 
50PoundHead said:
Was on the road all day and didn't listen to local radio and was shocked when I got home this evening and found out the Twins had fired Gardenhire. Living in Minnesota, I follow the Twins fairly closely and I was surprised they fired him. If they were going to fire him, I thought they would have done it after the second 90-loss season. I suppose the beef is they did go out and get him a couple of pitchers (Nolasco and Hughes) and things didn't get better.

Gardenhire gets a lot out of second-level players, but he's not particularly good with younger players (which the Twins are going to be for the next couple of seasons). Decent with the bullpen. Uses the whole bench. Makes Bobby Cox look like a MENSA member by comparison when he talks. If Bobby is old school, Gardy is one-room school house.
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I get all the Twins broadcast obliviously being in western Wisconsin and heard the radio conference today. Gardenhire did not like getting fired, you can hear it in his voice but he did respectively went through the press conference like a veteran.

Great manager like you said of veterans, but he would actually eat up our youngsters after what I heard today. He is real old school, WORST than Bobby, like 500 said. Being the 2nd youngest team in the majors with him would be a disaster. We need a younger manager that relates and know how to deal with our talent.

Trammel Manager ( I think combine of Gibson grit and smoothing it out he would be okay)
Pendleton/Perez would not be a bad choice either. Pendleton doesn't take crap out of anyone and we seen that plenty of times and he is well respected.

Batting coach - Julio Franco....I have no doubt he would be awesome at this. Hell he could have played for us and hit better than the schit we seen this year at 75 years old (his real age).
 
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AerchAngel said:
I will be sitting pins and needles. Please keep Bobby Cox away from that meeting.
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I'll save you the butt pain. We'll fire hitting coaches, maybe sacrifice a lamb or 2 otherwise in the running department, keep McDowell and keep Fredi. If we don't keep Fredi I'll be shocked. When they fired Wren they seemed to be sending a clear message, don't touch Bobby's boy. JS basically treated Wren like Fredo.
 
Why is that all these ex-Twins players seem perform better when they leave? I am from there and I follow them a bit. Morneau, Cuddyer, Span, and Revere are just some recent players who come to mind. Granted Morneau is a former MVP candidate and had concussion issues to end his time in Minnesota, so I get that one.
 
zitothebrave said:
I never got the Trade Gattis crowd. I mean I'd trade him but he's well down on the list of guys I'd trade. Sad that I think the FO has a similar thought process. CB is the catcher of the future so lets trade one of our best players and hope CB amounts to more than Henry Blanco.
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Could it be that some of us just don't like the guy? See him as the second coming of Bob Horner and would rather see him sitting 1/3 of the year on someone else's DL than ours? Get what you can for him while you can. Another injury plagued year and will be lucky to get marginal prospects for him.
 
NinersSBChamps said:
Why is that all these ex-Twins players seem perform better when they leave? I am from there and I follow them a bit. Morneau, Cuddyer, Span, and Revere are just some recent players who come to mind. Granted Morneau is a former MVP candidate and had concussion issues to end his time in Minnesota, so I get that one.
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I think Cuddyer got a boost from playing at Coors, but all the guys you mention had decent seasons in Minnesota. Revere is likely seeing some normal progression because he was relatively young when he was traded, but none of these guys is way above their career norm since leaving Minnesota. Gardy did screw around with guys though, especially younger players.
 
I like Gardenhire; don't think he'd be the right fit for our team. Sounds like he may get a front office job with the Twins if he wants it.
 
bravesnumberone said:
I like Gardenhire; don't think he'd be the right fit for our team. Sounds like he may get a front office job with the Twins if he wants it.
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Could be. I'm sure he's really disappointed he couldn't get the team to play better than they did. Twins' long-time obsession with pitch-to-contact over power arms has shown up a bit as performance has slipped. Thing is, they have some power arms coming up and a potential nucleus in Buxton and Sano if they both develop. If things fall together, they may not be all that far away.
 
The twins haven't had much talent around lately. That's been their biggest problem.

That being said, Phil Hughes has been a beast this year,
 
zitothebrave said:
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I'll save you the butt pain. We'll fire hitting coaches, maybe sacrifice a lamb or 2 otherwise in the running department, keep McDowell and keep Fredi. If we don't keep Fredi I'll be shocked. When they fired Wren they seemed to be sending a clear message, don't touch Bobby's boy. JS basically treated Wren like Fredo.
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Minimum, fire the horror twins. I can stomach Fredi if that was the main issue. They collected a paycheck to sit on their ass and spit sunflower seeds.
 
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