German gets rid of college tuition fees

Everything is wonderful when you only consider potential benefits and ignore the costs.

Just a pet peeve of mine...can we stop calling it "free" education? It's most certainly not "free," and the word is just used to gain support from the ignorant. Who could possibly be against "free" education?!?

The issue is whether we should be further burdening the taxpayer by coercing them to support higher education for the entire nation. "Free" doesn't exist.
 
AerchAngel said:
They do this in Germany and that is why their students take it seriously instead of partying 24/7 like our students do or take stupid classes to receive a worthless piece of paper, Bachelor of Sciences/Basketweaving. What are you going to do with that degree, make wicker baskets for the rest of your life?
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I have a doctorate in basket weaving. I don't have to take this abuse!
 
AerchAngel said:
common core......blech

Used to control the masses.
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AA, you've made good arguments in this thread up to this point. The Common Core only consists of math and reading, so if you want to say the government wants to indoctrinate kids to be competent in math and reading and contend that it's not a good thing, I really don't know what to say. Glenn Beck and company have tried to make the Common Core about a lot of different things that will make kids into little gay communists, but there are no social studies standards in the Common Core. I understand some of the controversy surrounding the math standards because they move away from "flash card" math toward teaches kids the "meaning" of numbers in an attempt to acquaint them with number theory. So bark about the Common Core, but acquaint yourself with what the Common Core truly is.

What the Germans do likely won't work in the United States. I'm not going to put sturg33 in a box, but his argument taken to the extreme would be that tuition and fees should pay for the entirety of higher education, which isn't the case for either public or private higher education. PELL grants can be used at private institutions and private institutions can compete for grants from federal and state governments. And public universities throughout the country receive considerable amounts of revenue from state governments.
 
50PoundHead said:
AA, you've made good arguments in this thread up to this point. The Common Core only consists of math and reading, so if you want to say the government wants to indoctrinate kids to be competent in math and reading and contend that it's not a good thing, I really don't know what to say. Glenn Beck and company have tried to make the Common Core about a lot of different things that will make kids into little gay communists, but there are no social studies standards in the Common Core. I understand some of the controversy surrounding the math standards because they move away from "flash card" math toward teaches kids the "meaning" of numbers in an attempt to acquaint them with number theory. So bark about the Common Core, but acquaint yourself with what the Common Core truly is.

What the Germans do likely won't work in the United States. I'm not going to put sturg33 in a box, but his argument taken to the extreme would be that tuition and fees should pay for the entirety of higher education, which isn't the case for either public or private higher education. PELL grants can be used at private institutions and private institutions can compete for grants from federal and state governments. And public universities throughout the country receive considerable amounts of revenue from state governments.
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let me put it to you in a way to understand in controlling the masses.

Common core hurts the smart people, but bring up the ones who are not so smart. Just like every person should get an award in school even though they are dumb as bricks or in sports everyone gets a trophy even though they suck.

common core is dumbing down our prize students at the expense of our smart students, especially in small towns. In bigger towns/cities they can be more accomodating. It is not fair to those who are brighter. They have no incentive to be the best they can be when they are stuck in this curriculum.

This is the reason why all my kids go to private schools. My 21 year old is in Dentistry school (a few posters on facebook can prove that), normal 8 year program in the states 4 years in Germany. She took private school on my dime for 14 years, studied it in a equivalent of sophomore year in high school until graduation. My 5 year old, youngest in our class (facebook friends can prove that under my w and we had to take a special test for even to be allowed to go to school since she is not qualified due to age to join is in 1st grade, but reads at a mid 3rd grade level and math at a 4th grade level. Grant it that my wife is a stay at home mom (facebook can prove that) and spends a lot of time with her, but our neighbor kids who are in public schools are struggling in their same grade level. One of them say, your daughter can do what?

We don't stress anything, she likes to have fun, but she annoys me at times with wanting to read and what this word means or this math problem when I am trying to watch a game or reading.
 
AerchAngel said:
let me put it to you in a way to understand in controlling the masses.

Common core hurts the smart people, but bring up the ones who are not so smart.
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That's kind of a stretch.

Smart people, smart kids will always be ahead of the game.

I see these common core math things on Facebook everyday thanks to my right wing friends who probably don't understand the purpose of it either.

The short-term strategy may not make sense of "why does my child have to do all of these steps" while the long-term strategy as 50 said, is to get children to understand the number theory earlier, and see the patterns etc. so when they start doing more advanced mathematics and sciences it should come easier for them.

I'm completely for that, and that's something I would've taught my kids how to do regardless if common core was ever implemented.

The multiples of 9 trick in essence is a shortcut, but it doesn't help you understand the numbers and why they work together.

I've never been much of a flash math supporter, because all it does is teach kids to remember what goes with what, and not how to break down the math in a few seconds in their head.

At the end of the day if you don't have parents who are that involved in your child's education, and aren't going to take the time at home to help them learn it, then you're screwed either way regardless of public or private school.

I find it more disturbing that the complaining parents who "don't even understand" how to do common core math itself are the ones barking up a tree. Common core math is just breaking stuff down, and if your parents can't figure it out or know how to do it, then the child was doomed from the get go.
 
BJ#1FAN said:
That's kind of a stretch.

Smart people, smart kids will always be ahead of the game.

I see these common core math things on Facebook everyday thanks to my right wing friends who probably don't understand the purpose of it either.

The short-term strategy may not make sense of "why does my child have to do all of these steps" while the long-term strategy as 50 said, is to get children to understand the number theory earlier, and see the patterns etc. so when they start doing more advanced mathematics and sciences it should come easier for them.

I'm completely for that, and that's something I would've taught my kids how to do regardless if common core was ever implemented.

The multiples of 9 trick in essence is a shortcut, but it doesn't help you understand the numbers and why they work together.

I've never been much of a flash math supporter, because all it does is teach kids to remember what goes with what, and not how to break down the math in a few seconds in their head.

At the end of the day if you don't have parents who are that involved in your child's education, and aren't going to take the time at home to help them learn it, then you're screwed either way regardless of public or private school.

I find it more disturbing that the complaining parents who "don't even understand" how to do common core math itself are the ones barking up a tree. Common core math is just breaking stuff down, and if your parents can't figure it out or know how to do it, then the child was doomed from the get go.
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What is the flash card method?

Wife did not teach our kids that at home. She doesn't teach common core either, the kids just picks it up. She is a CPA with her own business so I stay out of the math business. She could probably home teach the kids but we think social interactions is better for their upbringing.
 
Flash card math is simple memorization of lower arithmetic functions. It doesn't teach kids how to manipulate numbers in equations. It only teaches them that 6 times 9 equals 54.

The Common Core doesn't hurt smart people. That was the argument that accompanied NCLB, which was adopted well in advance of the Common Core and I think it is a tenuous argument. The Common Core is simply a set of standards to which all students should aspire and they are higher standards than what has traditionally been in place. The problem is that teachers aren't being provided with the staff development to successfully implement the teaching strategies needed to get kids to the standards. Part of the problem in the United States is that teaching is held in much higher regard in Western Europe, which drives quality people away from the teaching profession in the United States.

The United States' elementary school children do very well in international comparisons on most subjects, but that level of comparative performance drops as our students advance through the system. There are likely many reasons for that and the new Common Core math standards are an attempt to beef up our math standards and adequately prepare students for the higher math that is the focus of assessment later in students' careers.

The thing I find ironic is that Germany has a national curriculum in all subjects, which goes much further than the Common Core. They also channel students toward different educational paths based on a test all students take at the end of their elementary years. That would never go anyplace in the United States--nor necessarily should it--but they certainly have a system that works for them. What they do at the high school/early college level is have programs in place for all of their students, a facet of the United States' education system is sadly lacking.
 
Isn't it funny that as our education has become more centralized over the last few decades, that our country has fallen further and further behind?
 
50PoundHead said:
Flash card math is simple memorization of lower arithmetic functions. It doesn't teach kids how to manipulate numbers in equations. It only teaches them that 6 times 9 equals 54.

The Common Core doesn't hurt smart people. That was the argument that accompanied NCLB, which was adopted well in advance of the Common Core and I think it is a tenuous argument. The Common Core is simply a set of standards to which all students should aspire and they are higher standards than what has traditionally been in place. The problem is that teachers aren't being provided with the staff development to successfully implement the teaching strategies needed to get kids to the standards. Part of the problem in the United States is that teaching is held in much higher regard in Western Europe, which drives quality people away from the teaching profession in the United States.

The United States' elementary school children do very well in international comparisons on most subjects, but that level of comparative performance drops as our students advance through the system. There are likely many reasons for that and the new Common Core math standards are an attempt to beef up our math standards and adequately prepare students for the higher math that is the focus of assessment later in students' careers.

The thing I find ironic is that Germany has a national curriculum in all subjects, which goes much further than the Common Core. They also channel students toward different educational paths based on a test all students take at the end of their elementary years. That would never go anyplace in the United States--nor necessarily should it--but they certainly have a system that works for them. What they do at the high school/early college level is have programs in place for all of their students, a facet of the United States' education system is sadly lacking.
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Truth in bold. My daughter was asked what is her career path and they tailored her curriculum to that path. She did not take classes that has no bearing on her career unlike here in the States. England it is the same way I've learned from my colleague at work.
 
And BTW the countries at the top of education are there because of an emphasis on it. Many of those countries are more centralized than the US. Infact I don't think centralized education is inherently a bad thing. It can become bad of course, but it is how most of the countries ahead of us got there.
 
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