Teams Calling With Interest In Heyward, Justin Upton, Gattis

There is basically no reasonable deal which involves us trading two of Upton Magnus, Heyward and Gattis and being better next year. Which is fine, if the goal is to re-build for a couple years, but let's not kid ourselves on this. You don't delete most of the good hitters from a horrific offense and improve.
 
MadduxFanII said:
There is basically no reasonable deal which involves us trading two of Upton Magnus, Heyward and Gattis and being better next year. Which is fine, if the goal is to re-build for a couple years, but let's not kid ourselves on this. You don't delete most of the good hitters from a horrific offense and improve.
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We could always give the leftover hitters steroids.
 
MadduxFanII said:
There is basically no reasonable deal which involves us trading two of Upton Magnus, Heyward and Gattis and being better next year. Which is fine, if the goal is to re-build for a couple years, but let's not kid ourselves on this. You don't delete most of the good hitters from a horrific offense and improve.
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Which, I believe is becoming more and more obvious as to why JS wanted Hart to take over, was he wanted someone with Hart's leadership to spearhead putting together and bringing back a lot of key components with good people in scouting and development and overall team organization and management all the while making some tough decesions and tearing apart the MLB club and building towards putting a competitive team on the field in a couple of years when the new stadium opens. Not exactly the same situation that Hart was in when he took over in Cleveland as that organization was in the dumps and about as bad as it gets, but he did build through player development and locking up young talent and geared up for a phenominal run when Jacobs Field first opened.
 
I think they realize 1000% that the lineup constructed as is - is flawed as ****. Which bravo, because we tried it this way and we sucked. Hard.
 
MadduxFanII said:
There is basically no reasonable deal which involves us trading two of Upton Magnus, Heyward and Gattis and being better next year. Which is fine, if the goal is to re-build for a couple years, but let's not kid ourselves on this. You don't delete most of the good hitters from a horrific offense and improve.
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Well the very real possibility is there for us to lose both Justin and Jason to free agency, and then where will we be?
 
NYCBrave said:
Well the very real possibility is there for us to lose both Justin and Jason to free agency, and then where will we be?
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Exactly. John Hart is a smart guy and I can't see him being ok with just losing either or both to free agency. In my opinion, he has to trade BOTH if we're unable to extend either this offseason.
 
emk418 said:
Exactly. John Hart is a smart guy and I can't see him being ok with just losing either or both to free agency. In my opinion, he has to trade BOTH if we're unable to extend either this offseason.
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As upsetting as it could be, I just imagine the haul we could get back if we traded both guys. It may not be an automatic thing in 2015, but it could be incredible for the long run. Just saying.
 
emk418 said:
Exactly. John Hart is a smart guy and I can't see him being ok with just losing either or both to free agency. In my opinion, he has to trade BOTH if we're unable to extend either this offseason.
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Exactly, I don't want to see them either, especially Heyward, but we do have going for us that the FA market is pretty bare on quality OFers, as well as power hitters, so their could be potentially a pretty good market for both Heyward and Justin, along with Gattis, that could bring back a nice haul of quality cheap young players to build in the near future.
 
MadduxFanII said:
There is basically no reasonable deal which involves us trading two of Upton Magnus, Heyward and Gattis and being better next year. Which is fine, if the goal is to re-build for a couple years, but let's not kid ourselves on this. You don't delete most of the good hitters from a horrific offense and improve.
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I disagree. Combined Heywood and Justin account for 24 million in payroll. I think it's a very real possibility that we could trade them for younger cheaper players and get better as a team. Maybe we are worse at those 2 specific positions but better as an overall team. I think looking at season total stats doesn't tell you the whole story. Justin had something like a 1.000 OPS thru the first 24 games and then was under .800 the rest of the year. There is more to winning than just having gaudy stats. I could list 100 trades of big name players where they got better or equal production from the players they got. Just off the top of my head the Rays traded Price for Smyly and prospects and Smyly was just as good as Price to finish the year. This is where scouting comes in. For what we are paying Justin we could sign Yasmany Tomas And Have THE Players We Got Back In Trade.
 
Every team goes through peaks and valleys. Look at how crappy the Mets were and now they are in line for a long run of success. I am not opposed to tearing it down and letting the guys down on the farm do their work.
 
UNCBlue012 said:
As upsetting as it could be, I just imagine the haul we could get back if we traded both guys. It may not be an automatic thing in 2015, but it could be incredible for the long run. Just saying.
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What are the chances that any one player in this mythical "haul" is near as a good as either Upton or Heyward? Teams work for years to develop or acquire players like those; hitting the reset button while both are in or are entering their prime—especially when a lot of the other components of the Braves' core are in or are entering their prime—just doesn't seem smart.
 
thethe said:
How good will Heyward be when his defense slips?
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His defense slipping means he's still a pretty good defender. Also he's an above average hitter already. You're assuming his defense slips but don't assume his offense can be even better than it already is. Doesn't seem right.
 
For what we are paying Justin we could sign Yasmany Tomas And Have THE Players We Got Back In Trade.
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Hence my "realistic" qualifier. Is it possible to imagine a situation where we trade Heyward and Upton for an extraordinary haul of big league-ready young players who perform like gangbusters AND we use the money we saved to sign a big league ready young Cuban superstar who performs like gangbusters? Sure, we can imagine that. Stephen King exists, so clearly the human imagination is an amazing thing.

It's not remotely realistic, however. First, Upton, Gattis and Heyward, while really good and useful players, are all flawed in some way, and Upton and Heyward are both one-year rent-a-players for any team acquiring them. We'll get a good return for them, but it's almost certainly going to seem a little underwhelming to us, and it will almost certainly not include multiple, big league-ready superstar prospects. We're probably talking, at most, about one really good prospect ready to contribute immediately, one good prospect who's a couple years away and a long-term high-upside lottery ticket type per outfielder we trade.

Second, if we go this route, we are absolutely not jumping into the free agent market and throwing a nine-figure contract at Torres or anyone else. It'll be a move to re-trench for two years until the stadium opens. Which, again, might be a perfectly reasonable course of action. But it's not going to leave us better off in 2015.
 
BremanFan88 said:
His defense slipping means he's still a pretty good defender. Also he's an above average hitter already. You're assuming his defense slips but don't assume his offense can be even better than it already is. Doesn't seem right.
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It's a guarantee his defense will slip in a few years.
 
How many trades where a team trades an established star for prospects/young players that were just as productive or better do I meet to list for you to believe it's a possibility we can do the same? Not every star player was a top 10 prospect.
 
thethe said:
It's a guarantee his defense will slip in a few years.
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No it isn't. You're assuming it will. There's no expiration date on a players skill set. He's not even in the prime of his career yet. Maybe by the time he's 31 his defense starts to look more average but what exactly is "slipping"? He goes from the best defender in the league to just a good/solid defender? Oh the horror.
 
cajunrevenge said:
How many trades where a team trades an established star for prospects/young players that were just as productive or better do I meet to list for you to believe it's a possibility we can do the same? Not every star player was a top 10 prospect.
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No one doesn't think it's a possibility, it's just not very realistic.
 
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