Teams Calling With Interest In Heyward, Justin Upton, Gattis

My bold offseason prediction:

A package centered around one of Gattis/Heyward/JUp goes to Seattle for one of James Paxton or Taijuan Walker.
 
jpx7 said:
What are the chances that any one player in this mythical "haul" is near as a good as either Upton or Heyward? Teams work for years to develop or acquire players like those; hitting the reset button while both are in or are entering their prime—especially when a lot of the other components of the Braves' core are in or are entering their prime—just doesn't seem smart.
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Yeah, I think if you decide decide to punt with this group of talent (and young talent at that) you could be regretting it for a very long time. This team is young and entering their prime years. You go for it, even if you can't extend either J-Up or Heyward.
 
thethe said:
Problem is they all came up so young that they are due big money.
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And the bigger problem is we are hampered by big contracts to the likes of BJ, Uggla, and even CJ which hampers our ability to upgrade at positions of need in the short term all the while hampering our flexibility to sign these franchise type talents to long term extensions at market value.

Think about it, BJ, Uggla, and CJ account for 33.6 million against our budget, almost a third of our projected budget is tied up in non impact players. A mid market team like Atlanta can't sustain success for long with that much tied up in dead weight.
 
Millwood1Hitter said:
And the bigger problem is we are hampered by big contracts to the likes of BJ, Uggla, and even CJ which hampers our ability to upgrade at positions of need in the short term all the while hampering our flexibility to sign these franchise type talents to long term extensions at market value.

Think about it, BJ, Uggla, and CJ account for 33.6 million against our budget, almost a third of our projected budget is tied up in non impact players. A mid market team like Atlanta can't sustain success for long with that much tied up in dead weight.
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Those contracts are gaffes we cannot afford.

This post is spot on.
 
Tapate50 said:
Those contracts are gaffes we cannot afford.

This post is spot on.
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Yup and the consequence is that we can't capitalize on the young talent and extend them all. So you extend some and flip the others for futures and hope you scouted well.
 
Millwood1Hitter said:
And the bigger problem is we are hampered by big contracts to the likes of BJ, Uggla, and even CJ which hampers our ability to upgrade at positions of need in the short term all the while hampering our flexibility to sign these franchise type talents to long term extensions at market value.
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Everyone knows I wasn't particularly high on Wren, but I'll admit he some strengths to go with his weaknesses. But his biggest weakness was doling out big dollars to non-core players. I wasn't a fan of the Uggla extension, but Uggla was viewed as a core player and it didn't work out so I give Wren some measure of leeway on that decision. I give him little, make that almost no, leeway on the M. Upton deal or the C. Johnson deal. The excess dollars dedicated to those two (we had to have someone at those positions so all the dollars couldn't have been saved) should have gone into considerations for keeping the core players together, particularly Heyward. You can only spend a dollar once and dollars saved signing/acquiring someone cheaper than M. Upton and not extending Johnson could have all gone to Heyward and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 
50PoundHead said:
Everyone knows I wasn't particularly high on Wren, but I'll admit he some strengths to go with his weaknesses. But his biggest weakness was doling out big dollars to non-core players. I wasn't a fan of the Uggla extension, but Uggla was viewed as a core player and it didn't work out so I give Wren some measure of leeway on that decision. I give him little, make that almost no, leeway on the M. Upton deal or the C. Johnson deal. The excess dollars dedicated to those two (we had to have someone at those positions so all the dollars couldn't have been saved) should have gone into considerations for keeping the core players together, particularly Heyward. You can only spend a dollar once and dollars saved signing/acquiring someone cheaper than M. Upton and not extending Johnson could have all gone to Heyward and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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I actually like Wren, he did well and pulled off some absolute thefts in the trade department but he was ruthless whenever he had money to spend at his disposal and failed to look at the big picture.

I understood and supported the Lowe deal, we needed inning eaters and a veteran presence at the top of the rotation but the KK move was redundant after the fact we got Lowe and Vazquez to go along with Jurrjens and Hudson (injured) with Hanson and Medlen close to being ready. I felt at the time if Wren wanted badly enough another starter to compliment the rotation we should have gone after Randy Wolf, who cost the same as KK only we could have gotten him on a 1 year deal instead of 3. But that wasn't going to happen after the Furcal fiasco (same agent as Wolf).

I liked the Uggla trade and wasn't against the extension, although I didn't like the 5th year.

The BJ move was baffling at the time and even more baffling now considering everything. Wren took a huge gamble and doubled down and lost badly, and unfortunately the Braves and us fans are going to have to deal with the consequences now and in the future.

The CJ extension is unexplainable. Yes I know he locked in the controllable years but there is no need to sign a no on base, no power, no speed, poor fielding 3b to that extension and tie up funds in the future when we probably could get the same production out of a Goeslin-Kubitza platoon for less than a million and use the money somewhere else. And I'm one of CJs biggest supporters!
 
Millwood1Hitter said:
I actually like Wren, he did well and pulled off some absolute thefts in the trade department but he was ruthless whenever he had money to spend at his disposal and failed to look at the big picture.

I understood and supported the Lowe deal, we needed inning eaters and a veteran presence at the top of the rotation but the KK move was redundant after the fact we got Lowe and Vazquez to go along with Jurrjens and Hudson (injured) with Hanson and Medlen close to being ready. I felt at the time if Wren wanted badly enough another starter to compliment the rotation we should have gone after Randy Wolf, who cost the same as KK only we could have gotten him on a 1 year deal instead of 3. But that wasn't going to happen after the Furcal fiasco (same agent as Wolf).

I liked the Uggla trade and wasn't against the extension, although I didn't like the 5th year.

The BJ move was baffling at the time and even more baffling now considering everything. Wren took a huge gamble and doubled down and lost badly, and unfortunately the Braves and us fans are going to have to deal with the consequences now and in the future.

The CJ extension is unexplainable. Yes I know he locked in the controllable years but there is no need to sign a no on base, no power, no speed, poor fielding 3b to that extension and tie up funds in the future when we probably could get the same production out of a Goeslin-Kubitza platoon for less than a million and use the money somewhere else. And I'm one of CJs biggest supporters!
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I should have mentioned I didn't have a problem with the Lowe signing and Wren worked the trade markets well. And I should have made it more clear that while I didn't like Uggla as a player, I understood the reasoning behind his acquisition and contract extension. That's all I usually ask for.
 
Julio3000 said:
I can't believe we're sitting on this group of young players and talking about rebuilding.
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This what I was trying to say in my previous post, and you put it much more concisely than I did. This is the 2012-2013 Arizona Diamondbacks all over again, if they decide to go this route. Except that we probably have an even more talented group than they did. This would basically be the organization hitting the panic button after one disappointing season. I know it's a little more complicated than that, but that's basically what it boils down to. And from what I've known, the "Braves Way" was never about making rash decisions.
 
CyYoung31 said:
This what I was trying to say in my previous post, and you put it much more concisely than I did. This is the 2012-2013 Arizona Diamondbacks all over again, if they decide to go this route. Except that we probably have an even more talented group than they did. This would basically be the organization hitting the panic button after one disappointing season. I know it's a little more complicated than that, but that's basically what it boils down to. And from what I've known, the "Braves Way" was never about making rash decisions.
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So what should the Braves do then? I will be civil with you until you give me a reason not to be.
 
NinersSBChamps said:
So what should the Braves do then? I will be civil with you until you give me a reason not to be.
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Good. I'm glad you are respecting me.

And I've already said what the Braves should do. They should go for it. Stick with the core and try to upgrade at 3B, CF, and/or 2B, and sign an innings eater for the rotation. None of the upgrades have to be big money acquisitions or superstars, they just have to be competent. Don't be afraid of platoons. Get creative. This team can win now if you eliminate 2 or 3 of the 4 black holes in the lineup and add depth. The only one of our good players that I'd consider moving is Gattis since he doesn't have a true position, and he'd probably net us the biggest haul given his cost controlled affordability. But it would have to make us better now and hopefully for the future as well.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Good. I'm glad you are respecting me.

And I've already said what the Braves should do. They should go for it. Stick with the core and try to upgrade at 3B, CF, and/or 2B, and sign an innings eater for the rotation. None of the upgrades have to be big money acquisitions or superstars, they just have to be competent. Don't be afraid of platoons. Get creative. This team can win now if you eliminate 2 or 3 of the 4 black holes in the lineup and add depth. The only one of our good players that I'd consider moving is Gattis since he doesn't have a true position, and he'd probably net us the biggest haul given his cost controlled affordability. But it would have to make us better now and hopefully for the future as well.
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I can wrap my head around an idea like this. I'd rather go for it than stand pat that's for sure. It will be interesting to see how everything plays out.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Good. I'm glad you are respecting me.

And I've already said what the Braves should do. They should go for it. Stick with the core and try to upgrade at 3B, CF, and/or 2B, and sign an innings eater for the rotation. None of the upgrades have to be big money acquisitions or superstars, they just have to be competent. Don't be afraid of platoons. Get creative. This team can win now if you eliminate 2 or 3 of the 4 black holes in the lineup and add depth. The only one of our good players that I'd consider moving is Gattis since he doesn't have a true position, and he'd probably net us the biggest haul given his cost controlled affordability. But it would have to make us better now and hopefully for the future as well.
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It's amazing how short sighted the front office was regarding that at 3rd. They had the correct idea entering 2013 with Johnson and Francisco and then let Juan go when Johnson had the season of his life. Francisco had a 810 OPS against righties in 2014. Johnson had a 988 OPS against lefties. This honestly should be the easiest fix. 2B I think will take care of itself if they let La Stella start and not get jerked around. He should be an average bat out there. That fixes 2 of the offensive holes and just leaves center and short. Simmons was god awful this year after being ok with the bat for a shortstop the year before. Doesn't really matter since he is staying there due to his defense. Center is a big question mark. You could fix it if they are serious about Gattis to left then Heyward can go to center. But that puts CB in at catcher who is likely going to be an awful hitter as well so your not really fixing anything offensively. But either way if 3B and 2B get solved then this team can compete even with short and center being bad. And for the record I think Simmons will improve.
 
thewupk said:
It's amazing how short sighted the front office was regarding that at 3rd. They had the correct idea entering 2013 with Johnson and Francisco and then let Juan go when Johnson had the season of his life. Francisco had a 810 OPS against righties in 2014. Johnson had a 988 OPS against lefties. This honestly should be the easiest fix. 2B I think will take care of itself if they let La Stella start and not get jerked around. He should be an average bat out there. That fixes 2 of the offensive holes and just leaves center and short. Simmons was god awful this year after being ok with the bat for a shortstop the year before. Doesn't really matter since he is staying there due to his defense. Center is a big question mark. You could fix it if they are serious about Gattis to left then Heyward can go to center. But that puts CB in at catcher who is likely going to be an awful hitter as well so your not really fixing anything offensively. But either way if 3B and 2B get solved then this team can compete even with short and center being bad. And for the record I think Simmons will improve.
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Well that's when happens when the man in charge makes rash decesions based on whatever he feels is the route to take on any given day, only to change his mind and do a complete 360 a short time later. It's becoming more and more apparant that Wren was this type of decesion maker. The thing that I liked about Wren is it seemed that his moves seemed to materialize quickly and early in the offseason for the most part, but the downfall of that appears to be to our disadvantage as well.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Good. I'm glad you are respecting me.

And I've already said what the Braves should do. They should go for it. Stick with the core and try to upgrade at 3B, CF, and/or 2B, and sign an innings eater for the rotation. None of the upgrades have to be big money acquisitions or superstars, they just have to be competent. Don't be afraid of platoons. Get creative. This team can win now if you eliminate 2 or 3 of the 4 black holes in the lineup and add depth. The only one of our good players that I'd consider moving is Gattis since he doesn't have a true position, and he'd probably net us the biggest haul given his cost controlled affordability. But it would have to make us better now and hopefully for the future as well.
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I think Hart realizes this is a very tough idea to make come to fruition with our budget being what it is and instead of just considering Gattis, he is at least listening on everyone (not that dumb- most players that get within a year of FA go to FA so why not listen at the very least).

We are also going to need another OFr next year. It doesn't seem that BJ will either be here or in the mix for a starting position.
 
A two-year re-trenchment isn't an awful idea, even if it isn't the way I'd go. But if Hart trades Upton, Heyward and/or Gattis...he's got to knock those deals out of the park. There's no margin for error here. If the scouting and player evaluation isn't top-notch on the guys we're getting back and we miss on the prospects, we're boned for a long time. Situations where you have three high-quality position players available to trade in an offense-depressed market don't arise very often. We can't afford to botch these deals, if we decide this is the road we want to travel.

And my hesitation is that I don't see much in Hart's recent track record that instills me with confidence he'll come through the way he needs to.
 
MadduxFanII said:
A two-year re-trenchment isn't an awful idea, even if it isn't the way I'd go. But if Hart trades Upton, Heyward and/or Gattis...he's got to knock those deals out of the park. There's no margin for error here. If the scouting and player evaluation isn't top-notch on the guys we're getting back and we miss on the prospects, we're boned for a long time. Situations where you have three high-quality position players available to trade in an offense-depressed market don't arise very often. We can't afford to botch these deals, if we decide this is the road we want to travel.

And my hesitation is that I don't see much in Hart's recent track record that instills me with confidence he'll come through the way he needs to.
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Totally agree.

Of the three you mention, I think J. Upton brings the biggest haul on the offensive talent market, but I don't think anyone is interested in him for a one-year rental. Let me re-phrase, I think his trade value declines markedly if he's a one-year rental. If J. Upton is traded, I think Gattis could be a decent LF/3rd C option, getting as many ABs as he gets now. Like I wrote yesterday, he's no gazelle, but having watched Josh Willingham attempt to play LF, Gattis compares favorably.

Heyward is the best all-around player, but his market is going to vary widely.

Hart/Coppolella really have to think all of this through.
 
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