Braves Meeting with Lester

GovClintonTyree said:
I think this is crap. The problem is we had ****ty players. The guy won 96 games with two of the fifteen worst player/seasons of all time. But I'm guessing the 96 wins was despite Fredi and the 85 losses this year were because of him, right?

Why don't you take the gig, forced to play BJ every day or close to it and see how you do. Where do you hide him? When he had to play him and Uggla, where do you hide them?

I don't know that Fredi is a Hall of Famer, but if you think he's the problem, you really need a new prescription.

The groupthink on this site is ridiculous.
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I agree 100% with you on this Gov!! Would the same people who are calling for Fredi's head want #6 fired after our 85 loss 2014 season? It's unfair that he is being held to a double standard, nobody praises him for 96 wins but everybody crucifies him for losing 85 games.
 
blueagleace1 said:
I agree 100% with you on this Gov!! Would the same people who are calling for Fredi's head want #6 fired after our 85 loss 2014 season? It's unfair that he is being held to a double standard, nobody praises him for 96 wins but everybody crucifies him for losing 85 games.
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It's a combination of ALL of his years here. The guy has certainly had some bright points you can point to, but there are far more negatives. His managerial style exhausts players and leaves them with nothing at the end of the season. Look at his September/October numbers (look at your favorite season--2013). They are abysmal! And that isn't even addressing perhaps a bigger concern (though I'm sure it plays a part): the mess his clubhouse is in. The guy turned a clubhouse known for controlling troubled players and being one of the most professional in the league to the joke it is now.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Hart is very loose butthole right now.
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Dalyn said:
It's a combination of ALL of his years here. The guy has certainly had some bright points you can point to, but there are far more negatives. His managerial style exhausts players and leaves them with nothing at the end of the season. Look at his September/October numbers (look at your favorite season--2013). They are abysmal! And that isn't even addressing perhaps a bigger concern (though I'm sure it plays a part): the mess his clubhouse is in. The guy turned a clubhouse known for controlling troubled players and being one of the most professional in the league to the joke it is now.
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Please tell me how he did this? How would any of us know the state of the clubhouse?
 
And I'm not saying that I agree with every single thing that he does, because that clearly isn't the case. I'm just saying that if we are going to criticize him for the TEAM'S bad year, then we should be praising him for the TEAM'S good years.
 
blueagleace1 said:
Please tell me how he did this? How would any of us know the state of the clubhouse?
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Cox himself mentioned the clubhouse being a problem. And there are all the obvious signs since mid-2011. Players arguing with coaches, coaches arguing with players, players arguing with players, players calling out Fredi or bashing him to the media. On and on and on. It's not even a question for most people.
 
blueagleace1 said:
And I'm not saying that I agree with every single thing that he does, because that clearly isn't the case. I'm just saying that if we are going to criticize him for the TEAM'S bad year, then we should be praising him for the TEAM'S good years.
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And I acknowledged that he has had some good moments, but he has had far more bad moments and it is time to let him go. Just 2011 and 2014 with no ring in between would be enough for most teams to get rid of him. But there is also the horrible end to 2011, 2013, and 2014. Only one year has he managed to end the season with the team still capable of playing throughout September/October. How anyone can add that to the clubhouse mess and still decide he needs to be the manager is beyond me.
 
Dalyn said:
Cox himself mentioned the clubhouse being a problem. And there are all the obvious signs since mid-2011. Players arguing with coaches, coaches arguing with players, players arguing with players, players calling out Fredi or bashing him to the media. On and on and on. It's not even a question for most people.
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Please elaborate "most" people.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Fredi's clubhouse wasn't the problem. The fact that many of our players weren't good at hitting a baseball was the problem.
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Exactly, if the Braves hit better and made the playoffs, there wouldn't be any mention of clubhouse problems. Always have to find something to blame bad hitting/pitching on.
 
The only mention of clubhouse issues I heard all year was the BJ back talk to Fredi when he wasn't playing. If there was more info out there I missed it.
 
The collapse last season was mainly due to starvation. Fredi failed to supervise the food situation. As a result Laird and Harang ate everything leaving the rest of the team to starve.
 
Dalyn said:
Cox himself mentioned the clubhouse being a problem. And there are all the obvious signs since mid-2011. Players arguing with coaches, coaches arguing with players, players arguing with players, players calling out Fredi or bashing him to the media. On and on and on. It's not even a question for most people.
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"I don't think they've quit at all," Cox said. "I'm familiar with the clubhouse. It's as high-energy as you could possibly get under the circumstances. I think Fredi has done a remarkable job since he took over in 2011. I think he's just been outstanding. There have been difficult times -- even last year, to win 96 games with things that were taking place."

Dalyn, the facts do not support your position.
 
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