Politifact? Puh-lease. This was the same site that gave "pants on fire" or "mostly false" to those who said that Obamacare was going to increase premiums. Do a search on "Politifact bias" and see what you get.
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Politifact? Puh-lease. This was the same site that gave "pants on fire" or "mostly false" to those who said that Obamacare was going to increase premiums. Do a search on "Politifact bias" and see what you get.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Welcome to the conspiracy, anyone who says fox news is lying is liberal media and has a bias.
I have done a lot of research on Politifact and the selection bias is just awful. Anyway, on the media bias topic there has been a study done by a professor at UCLA that shows that liberal media bias does exist. There's no conspiracy in the media. There's no collusion with reporters. Most reporters in the old media are left wing so a left wing POV naturally gets pushed. Does the new media(Fox News and AM Radio) have a right wing bias? Yes, it does. It does because most of those involved are right of center. Is it a conspiracy to state the obvious that Fox News and AM radio are right oriented? Of course not. It is what it is.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
The conspiracy is that anyone left of center can't judge the right on being right or wrong.
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
I agree with most of that. I actually think that's pretty good and accurate way to describe what we have. You don't have to micromanage everything your people say if you just stack your ranks with people who agree with you to begin with (left or right). I also agree with something you said earlier about how much damage the Rather story on CBS did to send us towards the truth abyss in which we find ourselves now. That gave the far right to excuse they needed to say "we don't have to take anything the liberal media says about us (the Bush Cheney crowd and their supporters) because we caught them in a lie this time". Can everyone see where it's lead us since then?
I catch heck around here sometimes because I like Bill O'Reilly AND Bill Maher. I think if a person is going to watch or listen to one side they should also listen to the other. I used to love listening to Paul Harvey on the radio until he started talking politics, then he made me want to puke, Mike Huckabee has take his time slots on the radio around here and he has the same effect on me. It's OK to be liberal or conservative until you fall into that trap of having to make every single thing that happens in the world the fault of "that other side". Huckabee used to be a pretty cool conservative to listen to until someone told him he might get elected in 2016, now he's fallen back into that.
For whatever it's worth, here's my opinion on news media. BOTH "the liberal media" and the "right wing media" both suck, but they don't both suck because they just say things I don't agree with, they suck because they don't tell the whole truth, they cherry pick and spin a story around the bits and pieces of truth they find. When did we as a nation get to the point where we couldn't stand to hear anything we didn't already agree with? One test I've posted here before is that any right wing news outlet that didn't post at least 1 or 2 really scathing articles about Bush-Cheney isn't a reliable source and shouldn't be taken seriously as such, the same thing goes with left wing outlets who won't/haven't posted at least 1 or 2 really scathing articles about Obama-Biden. Pretty much everybody seems to agree with me, as long as it's only on one side of this argument.
To me THE truth is the most important thing, not whose truth it happens to be, THE truth belongs to noone. THE truth is nobody's beeotch. THE truth is God's truth and it is sacred.
I know I fall into the trap sometimes of blaming Fox/Faux News for everything or being all bad, and I am trying to do better in that area. Not all Fox people area bad, I've already admitted to liking O'Reilly. I can't stand Hannity, not sure about Megan Kelly yet, Greta was OK, not my favorite but OK. Shep Smith is OK, Fox and Friends makes Sean Hannity look like Edward R. Murrow, but maybe that's the real problem, we need more Edward R. Murrows in journalism, not more snake oil salesmen with pre-written agendas, left or right.
Anyway, that's my take on it.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
The problem Hawk is the liberal media is everyone who says things that aren't lockstep with Fox News/Rush/etc. When you hear liberal media, its' not talkign about MSNBC, NYT, NPR, or HuffPo. It's talking about everyone. Pew did a study on who watches what based on political views.
47% of peopel who're consistently conservative according to this study say they get their political news from Fox News. 15% of the people who came in consistently liberal get their news from CNN. Lower than the 20% of the slightly liberal and mixed. CNN Is the top news source for people who were roughly equal liberally and conservatively. The issue IMO isn't that there's a conservative and liberal media battle. It's that the conservative media is Fox News and anyone who isn't in line is liberal media. You can't have a non-biased discussion with believers in Fox News because their source tells you that all other sources are liberal.
Because it usually is. The old media is predominately liberal and the new media is predominately conservative. Seriously, I don't know any news organization that calls things straight down the middle. CNN sure doesn't. Fox News doesn't. Everyone has an agenda.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
But how far the delineate is the key. CNN is liberal leaning overall. THey have some severe liberals, who're countered by severe conservatives. It's not like MSNBC or Fox who are clearly pointing towards a party line and stay the course. Comparing Fox to CNN is what the biggest joke is.
I don't like CNN, don't watch it, don't go to their site other than to feel sad about unreported big news IMO. But they're pretty much down the middle with a left lean, and there's no real option for that on the right, which is the scary thing, if someoen wants to get news with a right lean, they're getting it from Fox which is the Koch/teaparty mouthpiece.
Also I think you oculdn't be more wrong about old/new media. I think that true old media (radio and newsprint) are dominated by conservatives overall. Of course there are liberals on that side, but overall it's conservative. I think TV is largely liberal. I think newest media the internet is heavily split down the middle with the extremes being the most represented there.
I disagree. Fox news has a ton of left leaning commentators. If you think Howard Kurtz and Shepard Smith (who even have their own shows) are conservatives I have some ocean front property in Arizona I want to sell to ya. As most lefties you're getting your info about Fox News from left leaning sites and what you believe is not factually based. Also, you're making the exact point that I was talking above. You're complaining that "you can't have a non-biased discussion with believers in Fox News because their source tells you that all other sources are liberal" Guess what? You're doing the same exact thing when you yell "Fox News" when a conservative brings up a point you don't like. You've done it a few times so don't say you haven't. Not really a big thing I guess. I'll admit I haven't always been consistent myself.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
No I've watched enough Fox News sitting around waiting for **** to happen at Doctors offices and whatnot to last a lifetime. Having a few token liberals doesn't make you balanced. It's like having a highschool class of 150 white people and 10 black people and screaming about the diversity! Fox News as a corporation pushes a conservative agenda, virtually in lock step, there are a few token left guys and libertarians, but that's just it, token. Overall Fox News is somewhere about equal to MSNBC on the liberal vs conservative end, but Fox is more conservative than balanced by a lot. THere's no shows on CNN that are anything like Glann Beck was or Sean Hannity is. Nothing even remotely close. You not acknowledging that is either intentional because it destroys your point or it's ignorant.
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
Isn't that pretty much what I just said? Far right folks tend to blame everything they hear that they don't like on the "liberal media" while far left folks blame the "Faux News Bunch". Is that not usually the way it works? Doesn't that make us all guilty? The biggest problem of all IMO is that pretty much nobody can stand to hear anything that he/she didn't already think was the truth, in fact they refuse to hear anything new. Why have we gotten to the point where we refuse to challenge ourselves to actually put forth the time and effort to determine the REAL truth rather than taking the microwave version of the truth (or the Cliff's Notes version if you prefer)? Maybe I should call this generation the Wikipedia generation. We go to our favorite source of "absolute truth" and gobble it up like a hungry dog, never even questioning who might have just been in there "fine tuning" what we're devouring.
Why doesn't anyone just tell the whole truth anymore? Could it be the same reason as why nobody in Congress can really be trusted (and for the same reasons)? Could it be that we have "the best media and the best elected officials money can buy"???
Oh and Garmel, this last part is for you, who actually stated (besides me of course) that Americans refused to believe or even listen to anything other than what we ALREADY believed to be "the truth"?? Bill Maher
True. They are right leaning but do I think they have the best political debates on TV.
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
Yeah, but how great does Al look riding his horse without his shirt on?
That's a picture in my head that I didn't need. Heh heh.
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
Which one, Al or Vlad?
Al. Al's up there in years and Al was obese at one time so you know there's a lot of stretch marks. UGH!! DAMN YOU, OKLAHOMAHAWK!!!!
