2015 NFL Draft

Of the playoff teams, here's the draft order:

21. Bengals
22. Steelers
23. Lions
24. Cardinals
25. Panthers
26. Ravens
27. Cowboys
28. Broncos
 
Tapate50 said:
Mizzou coach says he expects Shane Ray to run in the 4.4's....

Hope he doesn't run too fast.
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Im always leery about guys like Shane Ray. They just seem to flop more often than players that rely on size, strength, and technique to get to the QB.
 
gilesfan said:
Im always leery about guys like Shane Ray. They just seem to flop more often than players that rely on size, strength, and technique to get to the QB.
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Sure. But you cannot teach that type of speed. Good building block at the least. He doesn't have the 6'6 265 ideal frame, but we have to take what we can get.

Beggars can't be choosers.
 
Tapate50 said:
Sure. But you cannot teach that type of speed. Good building block at the least. He doesn't have the 6'6 265 ideal frame, but we have to take what we can get.

Beggars can't be choosers.
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Aaron Maybe was 6-4 250 pounds and ran a 4.6.
Shane Ray is 6-3 245 and will run 4.4 or 4.5

I just think teams fall in love with these type of players and they often don't work out in the NFL. I haven't seen much of Ray other than some highlights, but NFL tackles can figure out how to block a speed rusher off the end. These guys are very highly overated in the draft, imo.

I remember Maybin went ahead of Orakpo because he was faster.

Maybe Ray ends up being a star, but these type of players draw a red flag from me.
 
gilesfan said:
Aaron Maybe was 6-4 250 pounds and ran a 4.6.

Shane Ray is 6-3 245 and will run 4.4 or 4.5

I just think teams fall in love with these type of players and they often don't work out in the NFL. I haven't seen much of Ray other than some highlights, but NFL tackles can figure out how to block a speed rusher off the end. These guys are very highly overated in the draft, imo.

I remember Maybin went ahead of Orakpo because he was faster.

Maybe Ray ends up being a star, but these type of players draw a red flag from me.
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Larry English was that way too if I remember correctly.

Irvin w\Seattle too.

You may be onto something.
 
Tapate50 said:
Freeney doesn't have the height, but he goes dang close to 270lbs
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I mainly named those three because they are three guys who have namely gotten by by their freak athleticism. Freeney probably less so than the other two, but he also isn't Justin Smith with his technique either.

Ray and Gregory are freakish talents. Falcons would be lucky to get either in the draft.
 
chop2chip said:
Dwight Freeney. Ziggy Ansah. Pierre Paul.
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Dwight Freeney was strong and played with leverage though. He had a counter move.
JPP wasn't a speed guy in the sense of Ray (ran a 4.7) He has long arms to keep the OT off him.

Ray has relatively short arms and didn't display knowledge of counter moves or leverage. Of course there are some outliers, but he reminds me way too much of Maybin.

Here is a solid scouting report I read on Ray:

Shane Ray is a freak athlete with the best explosion I've seen in this class. He is limited by his lack of length, strength, arm extension, and bending. He would fit the LEO role, but I'd not put him at OTTO without seeing him in coverage. The only issue with putting him at LEO is, again, his lack of length. I think he'll be a good player, and I'd take him at the back end of the top 10, but not with the third overall pick. He will improve with NFL level coaching and strength, but if he doesn't find a way to bend he could be in trouble. If the Jags were to take him, it would have to be in a trade-back scenario.

Leonard Williams is the first defensive player I would take.
 
gilesfan said:
Dwight Freeney was strong and played with leverage though. He had a counter move.

JPP wasn't a speed guy in the sense of Ray (ran a 4.7) He has long arms to keep the OT off him.

Ray has relatively short arms and didn't display knowledge of counter moves or leverage. Of course there are some outliers, but he reminds me way too much of Maybin.

Here is a solid scouting report I read on Ray:

Shane Ray is a freak athlete with the best explosion I've seen in this class. He is limited by his lack of length, strength, arm extension, and bending. He would fit the LEO role, but I'd not put him at OTTO without seeing him in coverage. The only issue with putting him at LEO is, again, his lack of length. I think he'll be a good player, and I'd take him at the back end of the top 10, but not with the third overall pick. He will improve with NFL level coaching and strength, but if he doesn't find a way to bend he could be in trouble. If the Jags were to take him, it would have to be in a trade-back scenario.[/I

Leonard Williams is the first defensive player I would take.
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No argument against Leonard Williams. He's a Richard Seymour clone.

But if you get a guy like Shane Ray at number 8, then I think you have to be pretty pleased with that. Von Miller was a smaller, speed rushing linebacker coming out of college. It's not unprecedented for a guy like him to succeed.
 
chop2chip said:
No argument against Leonard Williams. He's a Richard Seymour clone.

But if you get a guy like Shane Ray at number 8, then I think you have to be pretty pleased with that. Von Miller was a smaller, speed rushing linebacker coming out of college. It's not unprecedented for a guy like him to succeed.
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Von Miller is a monster. I had no idea he played the run as well as he did.
 
I enjoy the draft and draft hoopla about as much as the actual football season I think. It does more than just get me through the off season.
 
Tapate50 said:
Von Miller is a monster. I had no idea he played the run as well as he did.
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Khalil Mack is on the smaller side as well.

Ray has more than enough size to play OLB. I do have concerns whether or not he can play the run though. That's definitely a concern.
 
chop2chip said:
Khalil Mack is on the smaller side as well.

Ray has more than enough size to play OLB. I do have concerns whether or not he can play the run though. That's definitely a concern.
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Size is a concern but it depends on how u use leverage. Ray is a workout warrior, but doesnt use his leverage to get the job done,he uses strictly speed. Maybe its coachable?

Worth the risk, maybe? But we always see guys like this go over players like Ryan Kerrigan that can be an every down OLB and has enough speed/leverage/pass rushing moves to be a solid passs rusher as well. I guess the thought provess is to go with upside.

Mack is incredible. Hes not a big guy,but he knows how to get under tackels pads and drive them back
 
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