Gattis Traded To Astros (pg. 13)

blueagleace1 said:
The only two that will be worse will be catcher and left field (and that is still uncertain since we don't know who will be in left). How will RF be much worse? Defensively.. yes! Offensively.. not worse at all, maybe a bit better.
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No it will almost certainly be worse. Lok at our last 3 seasons from Markakis and Heyward and last 2 as well.

Last 3 years Jason had a 116 wRC+ Markakis 104

Last 2 years Jason had a 114 wRC+ Markakis 97

Markakis was better than Jason 1 out of last 3 seasons, and that was by a small amount in 2012, basically the same amound Jason was better last year. Jason was streets ahead of Markakis in 2013.
 
Getting the Astro's, who have a very good farm system, #3, #8 and #20 prospects is a hell of a haul for Gattis. I'll miss Oso Blanco, but you have to be happy with this trade.
 
zitothebrave said:
No it will almost certainly be worse. Lok at our last 3 seasons from Markakis and Heyward and last 2 as well.

Last 3 years Jason had a 116 wRC+ Markakis 104

Last 2 years Jason had a 114 wRC+ Markakis 97

Markakis was better than Jason 1 out of last 3 seasons, and that was by a small amount in 2012, basically the same amound Jason was better last year. Jason was streets ahead of Markakis in 2013.
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CAREER (average) OPS+

Heyward- 114
Markakis- 113

I don't see how that is "much worse". I think (just my opinion) that Markakis is consistently a better offensive player than Jason. Is he a better all-around player? Absolutely not and it's not even close but just from an offensive standpoint, you can make the case for Markakis.
 
The past doesn't matter, only the future performance. Markakis was pretty good to start his career, that isn't the player he is anymore and it shouldn't factor into what you think he is now. If anything Markakis is a cautionary tale against signing Heywood to a huge contract. If his bad doesn't improve what happens when he loses some speed and defense as he ages. Then your paying 25 mill a year for what Markakis is now.
 
blueagleace1 said:
CAREER (average) OPS+

Heyward- 114

Markakis- 113

I don't see how that is "much worse". I think (just my opinion) that Markakis is consistently a better offensive player than Jason. Is he a better all-around player? Absolutely not and it's not even close but just from an offensive standpoint, you can make the case for Markakis.
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Not if youbtake age and recent performance into account.
 
blueagleace1 said:
CAREER (average) OPS+

Heyward- 114
Markakis- 113

I don't see how that is "much worse". I think (just my opinion) that Markakis is consistently a better offensive player than Jason. Is he a better all-around player? Absolutely not and it's not even close but just from an offensive standpoint, you can make the case for Markakis.
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Career OPS+ when one player is going into year 10 and one into year 6 is not really relevant.

Markakis's last season with a OPS+ over 110 and 140 games or more played was Jason's rookie season. Markakis being a fantastic hitter in 2008 doesn't play much into his 2015 performance. Nor does Jason's 2010 performance.
 
I think most know that I'm in favor of the rebuild and while Wren deserves a lot of the blame...one should not turn a blind eye to JS and him overseeing the downfall and shortcomings if the FO at that point in time, and failed to solve the problem.

JS is one of the biggest hypocrites in sports along with Coach K. They bask in the glory of their past success but fail to look in the mirror and take responsibility and solve the problems at hand.
 
I'm still confused on why everyone says we HAD NO CHANCE at signing EITHER Heyward or Upton. If that is the case, how the heck do we expect to compete in two years? If we can't afford a single premium talent on our roster?
 
Interesting perspectives in here.... All I have to say is.... Hey, We're lucky. As a kid born in the mid-80's, I've never had to see my favorite team rebuild before. We've been spoiled. Still retaining the nucleus. Kimbrel, Freeman, Simmons, Teheran.... Gonna be tough watching us just sorta "there" for the next couple seasons. But it's something most franchises have to go through at some point. Let's hope it goes well.
 
Tino25Dynasty said:
Interesting perspectives in here.... All I have to say is.... hey... We're lucky. As a mid kids born in the mid-80's... Have never had to see by favorite team rebuild before. We've been spoiled. Still retaining the nucleus. Kimbrel, Freeman, Simmons, Teheran.... Gonna be tough watching us just sorta "there" for the next couple seasons. But it's something most franchises have to go through at some point. Let's hope it goes well.
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The good news is if it doesn't go well we can always trade Kimbrel, Freeman, Simmons and Teheran to build up our farm system.
 
MLB Pipeline slots Folty at #2, Ruiz at #6. Thurman sits just outside our top 20. So we got two of our top 6 prospects for Gattis. Nice!
 
sturg33 said:
I'm still confused on why everyone says we HAD NO CHANCE at signing EITHER Heyward or Upton. If that is the case, how the heck do we expect to compete in two years? If we can't afford a single premium talent on our roster?
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It was not signing them for what they valued them at. Why pay more for something that you believe isn't worth that much? We can debate their value all day but it's clear the Braves did not value these players as strongly as some on this board. We will see what their future production tells us about the Braves assessment.
 
thethe said:
It was not signing them for what they valued them at. Why pay more for something that you believe isn't worth that much? We can debate their value all day but it's clear the Braves did not value these players as strongly as some on this board. We will see what their future production tells us about the Braves assessment.
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If they don't value them, who is going to be available that we will value?

You're blind defense of everything the org does is annoying.
 
I'm excited about the rebuild. Is it going to be painful to watch this team? Yes it is but it was painful to watch last year as well. Even the year before when they won the division it was hard because of how inconsistent the offense was. I guess I'm like thethe, I like to focus on the positive and try to understand what the front office is trying to accomplish. These are paid professionals (one's who have had success in the past) so my guess is they know what they are doing. I understand fans are upset at the possibility of this team being the worst team in baseball and they want to think if we would have kept the team in tact next year things would have been different and we would have been a playoff team but chances are that would not have happened. Rebuilding is not a sure thing, there is a reason prospects are called prospects, they may or may not work out but if you come to the conclusion that Heyward and Upton were not resigning and you don't believe this team is in position to win a World Series this year then a rebuild is not a bad strategy. Everyone has a right to their own opinion but you have to say this about the front office, they have a plan and are sticking to it. Let's just hope it works like they are hoping, if it does we could look back on these deals and be very thankful some hard decisions were made.
 
sturg33 said:
If they don't value them, who is going to be available that we will value?

You're blind defense of everything the org does is annoying.
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I stated many times that I would have extended Upton. However I didn't think paying top dollar for Heyward was smart. But now that they were traded I have faith in the proplr in charge of the scou ting wing of the organization.
 
ChapelHillMatt said:
I'm excited about the rebuild. Is it going to be painful to watch this team? Yes it is but it was painful to watch last year as well. Even the year before when they won the division it was hard because of how inconsistent the offense was. I guess I'm like thethe, I like to focus on the positive and try to understand what the front office is trying to accomplish. These are paid professionals (one's who have had success in the past) so my guess is they know what they are doing. I understand fans are upset at the possibility of this team being the worst team in baseball and they want to think if we would have kept the team in tact next year things would have been different and we would have been a playoff team but chances are that would not have happened. Rebuilding is not a sure thing, there is a reason prospects are called prospects, they may or may not work out but if you come to the conclusion that Heyward and Upton were not resigning and you don't believe this team is in position to win a World Series this year then a rebuild is not a bad strategy. Everyone has a right to their own opinion but you have to say this about the front office, they have a plan and are sticking to it. Let's just hope it works like they are hoping, if it does we could look back on these deals and be very thankful some hard decisions were made.
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But the good thing about it is that we have acquired pitching, which has been and is the strength of this organization as far as evaluation, development, and getting the most out of those players...so I essence with what we have acquired we should have enough to the point where we're gonna get good production out of this talent despite some flameouts, injuries, etc...and our evaluation will be key during this time in determining who stays and will have the largest impact and those that are expendable to acquire other needs (ie offense) to put a legit contender on the field.
 
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