Seattle Restaurant Closings

zitothebrave said:
Again, do your research. I'm not gonna teach you where your history teacher failed about robber barrens and the whatnots.

And you cna make like 8.30 in most places and still be getting paid more than minimum wage. And you won't work more than 30 hours at that job because they don't want to give you health care. And even if they did, never get over time. Even 1 hour of overtime is the devil!
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OK so you don't have a rebuttal.

Lastly, I'm totally fine with you wanting minimum wage. I'm against it because it's anti-freedom. We differ. It ain't the first time. I just hope my boss doesn't suddenly wake up and collude with every other company in the world and cut my pay down to minimum wage!!
 
Well thankfully for you we have lots of laws and reprecussions that will help protect you as an employee. You know because of the government.
 
sturg33 said:
What's stopping them from paying me minimum wage?
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The fact that you could leave a tough job for mindless simple job of say McDonalds. If all jobs paid the same, why would anyone do anything more than work at say Walmart and jack off if they'll get paid the same to be an account executive?
 
Raise the minimum wage annually at the rate of inflation. That would keep it from suddenly jumping dramatically while ensuring that purchasing power would not decline. A sudden 25+% increase is sure to reap some unintended consequences in the form of job losses and businesses closing.
 
BedellBrave said:
4% profit margin - dang that's tight. Can't imagine the gumption it takes to go into business for that.
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It's largely projection. But restaurants fail at a high rate for a reason and it's because of the inability to make money if you don't have a thriving restaurant or at least great profit margins. I probably know as much or more about it than most here as my girlfriend's parents run a very successful restaurant up here in the shire. Their profit margin isn't 4%. They also pay their employees above minimum wage and are looking to provide healthcare for their full time employees as well. Mainly because of Obamacare incentives for them. It would offset their tax burden by much more than the cost. They're great examples of the way to run a fantastic business, they make money, their employees get paid and are happy, they provide great service to the customers and the customers leave happy. The amount of tips an employee there can make is insane since it's just a simple breakfast joint.
 
zitothebrave said:
And if every job offered you a dollar a day you wouldn't work in a city and be a dirt poor farmer instead.
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This would be the case if our economy hadn't drastically changed the past century. If you work a job higher than the minimum wage, chances are you aren't affected minimum wage laws (at least directly).
 
sturg33 said:
Hypothetical? It's literally what is happening in the story above?

A restaurant is valuing employees for less than $15. The employees have agreed to that. Now the minimum wage is saying they can no longer be valued at less than $15, and so those employees are no longer allowed to work. Consenting adults had agreed on a value that the government is no longer allowing. That is absolutely anti-freedom. If you support that, that's fine. But at least man up to it.
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Exactly. It doesn't matter if it's $25, $15, or $5 an hour. At any level, it is still prohibiting two consenting parties if they agree to a wage one nickel below the minimum.

To insist that in the absence of a minimum wage, employers would collude to drive down wages to a dollar a day is to have a pretty flimsy grasp on supply/demand and the competitive structure of markets.
 
chop2chip said:
This would be the case if our economy hadn't drastically changed the past century. If you work a job higher than the minimum wage, chances are you aren't affected minimum wage laws (at least directly).
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And what were things that drove that change? It couldn't have been labor laws could it? I mean things didn't drastically change post WWII and that didn't have a massive effect do to the big changes put in play by the guys running the government before that period. No let's just pretend the market changed because of demand.
 
zitothebrave said:
The fact that you could leave a tough job for mindless simple job of say McDonalds. If all jobs paid the same, why would anyone do anything more than work at say Walmart and jack off if they'll get paid the same to be an account executive?
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You missed the point... earlier you said with no minimum wage laws everyone would collude and I'd make $1 per day.

But nothing is stopping everyone from colluding right now to pay me $7.50 an hour. Yet I'm (and 98% of other workers) are ahead of that.
 
sturg33 said:
You missed the point... earlier you said with no minimum wage laws everyone would collude and I'd make $1 per day.

But nothing is stopping everyone from colluding right now to pay me $7.50 an hour. Yet I'm (and 98% of other workers) are ahead of that.
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Never said that. You jumped to that point. I said go ask people at the turn of the century how great their lives were. Minimum wage came into play in 1938 or something like that. Post WWII has arguably been the greatest era in American history as far as the middle class is concerned. Are the 2 directly linked? Maybe not but the correlation is very strong with it.
 
zitothebrave said:
Never said that. You jumped to that point. I said go ask people at the turn of the century how great their lives were. Minimum wage came into play in 1938 or something like that. Post WWII has arguably been the greatest era in American history as far as the middle class is concerned. Are the 2 directly linked? Maybe not but the correlation is very strong with it.
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Here are some of your quotes in this thread:

And if every job offered you a dollar a day you wouldn't work in a city and be a dirt poor farmer instead.
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Or they'll collude and keep everyone at low paying jobs, like the did back at the turn of the century.
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Ok, or they think you're worth 2 bucks an hour, there's no minimum wage, they won't offer you more than 2 bucks an hour so you go somewhere else and guess what they won't either. And you know that job that is paying people 10 an hour? They're not hiring because they've got enough employees.
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But if you think minimum wage should be abolished, you're an idealist who doesn't have a grasp on how the world would work if the rich had nothing containing them.
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So if it's a forgone conclusion that everyone will collude and pay $1 a day, then I'm still confused why they're not doing that today by paying everyone min wage?
 
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