Braves in talks with DBacks for Trevor Cahill

[Carp]

I don't. If you're developing young talent for 2017, develop it. Don't trade for a $6m tomato can and let him eat innings that Martin or several others could use to develop. If we needed to round out the back end of our rotation in order to contend, you might take a flyer on somebody like this.

But that's not where we're at and even if we were, this isn't the guy.

He doesn't throw strikes, he doesn't have repeatable mechanics, he's very out of shape and, in my opinion, he's not very bright. If there's no clear upside - and between him, Wandy, and Stoltz, there's not - why burn the $5.5m?

Another goofy 3 Johns move that they'll claim as genius. It's like a rebuild with a Goodwill placekeeper.

There is clear upside between those players. And again, it cost basically nothing to get him. Similar pitchers are getting paid much more than the 5.5 million we are paying him. There is no downside to this deal. None. At. All. And why would we want to start the clocks of our young pitchers when are clearly aren't going to be competitive this yr?

Regardless if you like the guy or not, it doesn't change the fact that's he's pretty talented and put up some very good years, even as recently as 2013. If he puts together a good first half, he could net us a nice piece at the deadline.

As far as your other post, be realistic. Even if we didn't make all the other signings we did this offseason, we still are not signing Moncada or Olivera. We weren't going to approach anywhere near the amounts they got, even if we had the money to spend (and we did have the money to sign Olivera if we wanted him at that price).

 

[thethe]

You better believe if Cahil has a bounceback year that they will consider using those option years. 13M for a good #3 (hopefully a #2) is real cheap.

 

[ChapelHillMatt]

I still think the whole point to deals like this is to try and flip them at the deadline (assuming he has a good 1st half). Hart knows this team isn't going to be competitive but when you can acquire talent cheap with the potential of turning it into something more you do it. You don't just throw your hands up in the air and say "We are going to be terrible, let's not try and improve".

 

[thethe]

I still think the whole point to deals like this is to try and flip them at the deadline (assuming he has a good 1st half). Hart knows this team isn't going to be competitive but when you can acquire talent cheap with the potential of turning it into something more you do it. You don't just throw your hands up in the air and say "We are going to be terrible, let's not try and improve".

Cahill could easily be flipped for a prospect better than Elander if he has a bounceback. But like you said Matt you always have to try and improve. What if in some crazy universe these moves work out and guys like Markakis/Peterson/Simmons/CB hit and Miller has a big year and Cahil a bounceback? All of a sudden you might find yourself in a playoff push.

I don't think it will happen but its not a non-zero chance.

 

[Dalyn]

I don't think anybody knows what Hart is trying to do anymore.

It's the Mukaki Rebuild.

 

[clvclv]

Or used it to sign Heyward.

Isn't that still part of the point though? EVERYONE they've signed or traded for can be walked away from following this season (assuming they're not flipped for more prospects). IF the kids develop as hoped, you have replacements for Melvin (Smith), Johnson (Ruiz), Callaspo (Peterson/Peraza), Cahill (Foltyniewicz), and Minor (Banuelos) at the minimum salaries and you can dedicate all available resources to obtaining Justin, Heyward, or Cespedes.

Can anyone honestly say we'd have been in a better position going into the new park if they'd have been able to extend Justin or Jason and NOT acquired all these prospects AND given them time to develop? We sure didn't have those types of options available otherwise. You'd still have Melvin in CF, Johnson at 3B, a more expensive Minor, and LOTS of ??? (without very high ceilings) in the system.

 

[Hawk]

Everyone? Not Markakis, who coincidentally was the largest investment of the offseason.

 

[dak]

Bowman confirms no competitive balance pick. I still think we overpaid a bit, but still an okay deal. May look a little better in context if we can trade Wandy for something useful . . . now or in a few months.

Mike Yawn ‏@cmyawn59 46m46 minutes ago
@mlbbowman Do the Braves still get a comp pick as part of the Cahill trade? You indicated so last night...

‏@mlbbowman
@cmyawn59 no that was a misunderstanding before the details were finalized

 

[clvclv]

Everyone? Not Markakis, who coincidentally was the largest investment of the offseason.

Markakis is the cost-driven "replacement" for whichever of Justin or Heyward (or Cespedes) on the other corner since they couldn't possibly afford two $20+ million OFs.

And there's actually nothing precluding them from trading him for even more prospects if a contender comes calling with a need for an OF.

 

[Deester11]

Bowman confirms no competitive balance pick. I still think we overpaid a bit, but still an okay deal. May look a little better in context if we can trade Wandy for something useful . . . now or in a few months.

Mike Yawn ‏@cmyawn59 46m46 minutes ago

@mlbbowman Do the Braves still get a comp pick as part of the Cahill trade? You indicated so last night...

‏@mlbbowman

@cmyawn59 no that was a misunderstanding before the details were finalized

I don't know.... It's a mixed bag, but Elander is certainly not the overpay..

 

[thethe]

Does everyone really believe that Markakis is going to be a big bag of turd?

 

[50PoundHead]

(1) I'm not happy with the returns in all cases, but I think that outside of the Markakis signing (which I'm still not getting) the moves were typical of a team intent on rebuilding and thus follow a logical pattern. The question will always be whether or not the drastic moves should have been postponed to post-2015 and we should have instead loaded up for a run in 2015. I think both sides of that argument have merit.

(2) Only thing that is a bit bothersome about the Cahill acquisition is that it portends a "middling" approach that bedevils some organizations. If you are in total rebuild mode--which we are in whether or not Hart says so--you take your lumps. When I see moves like this, it makes me think the ultimate result will be is that will lose games by scores of 5-3 rather than 8-3. A loss is still a loss and there's no development of a long-term asset (or determination whether or not a prospect will be a long-term asset). But in terms of value for value, I think we made out like bandits on this one.

 

[Heyward]

Or used it to sign Heyward.

 

[Hawk]

Markakis is the cost-driven "replacement" for whichever of Justin or Heyward (or Cespedes) on the other corner since they couldn't possibly afford two $20+ million OFs.

And there's actually nothing precluding them from trading him for even more prospects if a contender comes calling with a need for an OF.

You said 'EVERYONE they've signed or traded for can be walked away from following this season'.

Just keeping the facts straight.

 

[Dunit24]

This team is underrated big time and they know no one is picking them. The organization has set this team up to compete if things go well. If not, they have set up this team where they can trade guys at the deadline.

I really don't know what the complaining is about. Once next year hits and Upton and Hayward sign huge contracts...then some of you see the talented young prospects we acquired for them, THEN you will understand what's taking place.

Follow that up with in 2017, going into a new stadium with the payroll to sign whoever we want to go along with a good young team....

Hart, JS, JC and Cox know how to succeed.

 

[Hawk]

Does everyone really believe that Markakis is going to be a big bag of turd?

When factoring in what I believe his overall performance (offensively and defensively) will be over the course of his entire contract, our needs as a rebuilding organization, and his cost: I would say yes.

Maybe not like a St. Bernard's **** bag, but more like a Shih Tzu's.

 

[Hawk]

Hart, JS, JC and Cox know how to succeed.

Hell, Schuerholz even wrote a book about it.

Here are his five principles to build a winner:

1. Create a new vision.

2. Establish organizational goals.

3. Develop a roadmap, or game plan, if you prefer, for success.

4. Inspire the staff.

5. Provide the leadership.

 

[thethe]

This team is underrated big time and they know no one is picking them. The organization has set this team up to compete if things go well. If not, they have set up this team where they can trade guys at the deadline.

I really don't know what the complaining is about. Once next year hits and Upton and Hayward sign huge contracts...then some of you see the talented young prospects we acquired for them, THEN you will understand what's taking place.

Follow that up with in 2017, going into a new stadium with the payroll to sign whoever we want to go along with a good young team....

Hart, JS, JC and Cox know how to succeed.

Braves were up against a wall and decided on going for a long run at success as opposed to one ws run with a flawed team.

 

[NinersSBChamps]

I don't think anybody knows what Hart is trying to do anymore.

Not even himself.

 

[Dalyn]

Does everyone really believe that Markakis is going to be a big bag of turd?

He will be in 2017 most likely, which is going to hurt our magic year.