Trade Deadline Day
- Thread starter bravesnumberone
- Start date
on what, specifically?
The fact that Philly has a good future. Its pretty obvious they don't. They need to tear it down. Their run is over.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
classic giles
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Just like they needed this year, they will need A LOT to go right in the future to be able to compete with Atlanta or Washington the next few years. They don't have much of a farm. They haven't made particularly good decisions, on trades or signings. Don't draft well.
Just like when they won in '08, even. Sure Howard, Utley, Rollins were all great then, but Werth and Victorino were two guys they happened to hit on that performed out of this world.
I invite anyone who says our pitching isn't good enough to win to go look at their staff in '08.
Lol. Great counter points you've brought......oh wait.
The Phils have a 160 million dollar payroll this year. You know how much is tied up next year? (before arby- $104,000). The next year? 87k. They will have a lot of money to spend.
Though Im not a big fan of Howard, they will have:
C- ?
1B- Howard
2B- Utley
SS- Rollins
3B- Asche (other?)
LF- Dom Brown
CF- Revere
RF- Ruf (other) or flip flop with Brown
They are not that far off. If they sign an impact LF, C, or 3B or 2, they will again have a very good offense. Heck, even with the crap they are throwing out now, they have the 5th best offense in the NL in wOBA.
Hamels is a good block to build on. Lee has at least a couple years left in his arm. They have prospects. They have plenty of backend candidates. They have a international guy they just signed--
"He's a real talent," said one scout to Scott Miller of CBSSports.com in June. "He had some bone spurs, and he's still building up, but his stuff is top shelf. He threw it over the plate, and he can make it move. He's really good.
"He's like a classic Cuban guy in that he toys with all [his pitches]. He throws a curve that's bigger, he makes it go wide, he throws it straight down ... it's like 10 different pitches. And he throws them all over the plate."
Gonzalez is said to throw in the 94-95 mph range with his fastball while touching 96. He held several workouts and showcases in Mexico before signing."
And of course they have the money to sign a starter if they want.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
So:
C - ? - Not easy to find one of these. Even in FA.
1B - LOL
2B - 120 games or less from Chase
SS - Rollins isn't very good
3B - Asche will be their guy, huge ?
LF - Brown - is he this good? I don't buy the huge power.
CF - Revere - hasn't been good on D, all value is in SB
RF - Ruf cannot play there. He can't play LF.
Badler and others have said they see MAG as a backend guy or reliever. Few believe he could be a 3, even less say 2.
Who's in their farm that's high-ceiling outside Biddle?
C - ? - Not easy to find one of these. Even in FA.
1B - LOL
2B - 120 games or less from Chase
SS - Rollins isn't very good
3B - Asche will be their guy, huge ?
LF - Brown - is he this good? I don't buy the huge power.
CF - Revere - hasn't been good on D, all value is in SB
RF - Ruf cannot play there. He can't play LF.
Badler and others have said they see MAG as a backend guy or reliever. Few believe he could be a 3, even less say 2.
Who's in their farm that's high-ceiling outside Biddle?
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
So, it's a question of rotational depth. I'm not on this "Philadelphia is phucked" argument as hard and heavy as others, but the "counterpoint" you made re Hamels misconstrues, either deliberately or through deficit of reading, the point yeezus was making about Biddle's development in the context of Philadelphia's future rotation(s).
Asche is a very good hitting prospect.
Granted I do not like Howard, but people are acting like he's the worst player in baseball or something.
The Phils could sign Mac. They could sign a guy like Suzuki. They could keep Ruiz. They have options because they have money to spend.
You find a guy that is negative on Gonzalez....cool
They also have 60 million to spend next year. 80 million the next.
Granted I do not like Howard, but people are acting like he's the worst player in baseball or something.
The Phils could sign Mac. They could sign a guy like Suzuki. They could keep Ruiz. They have options because they have money to spend.
You find a guy that is negative on Gonzalez....cool
They also have 60 million to spend next year. 80 million the next.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
I don't think Asche is a "very good" prospect. And most every list doesn't think so, either.
Howard is a platoon player. Well, should be.
Mac would be a huge get. Suzuki? Ruiz? That's going to help their offense?
There are plenty of people negative on Gonzalez. You found one positive...cool.
They have money but a bad GM who makes bad decisions in pretty much every facet.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
LOL did you expect him to actually address your point? Come on.
ok. I thought he meant Hamels would not be an ace if/when Biddle or others (Morgan?) would be ready. Being that Biddle is going to have a full year at AA this year, I doubt he's that far off. It depends on what you expect from him and when. Hamels should have a few good years left. Lee- who knows, a least a couple.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Phillies can possibly compete but they're more like in a position we were in from 06-08 where we have some interesting young guys who you never know what can happen, and some overpaid albatrosses. Howard's contract will certainly hinder the Phillies for many years. Halladay is likely gone which is why I think they signed the Cuban pitcher. At the very least they decline his option since it won't vest.
The issue with saying the Phillies have "60 million" to spend is it doesn't factor in league minimum gues and arb raises. Kendrick, Bastardo, Lannan, Frandsen, Mayberry, Revere, and Valdez are all arb 1. If they keep all of those guys they make more than league minimum. Kendrick and bastardo are likely around 10M themselves. That's with them not picking up Halladay's option and how ever much Gonzalez will make isn't factored in.
The reality is that the Phillies have 6 players making 104.75 Million. They have about 60 million to fill out the remaining 19 roster spots. I assume Kendrick goes nowhere, that's probably roughly 6 or 7 million Bastardo at around 2-3M, Frandsen around 1M Let's presume maybe 5M for Gonzalez (hard to gauge if that's whaty it will be or not, no real details but I assume it's backloaded) so those guys I presume stick around let's say around 2M for Revere and Mayberry. If that's all true they have then about 40M for the 13 remaining players. Which basically in reality means they have about 30M to spend in FA. Not 60M.
The issue with saying the Phillies have "60 million" to spend is it doesn't factor in league minimum gues and arb raises. Kendrick, Bastardo, Lannan, Frandsen, Mayberry, Revere, and Valdez are all arb 1. If they keep all of those guys they make more than league minimum. Kendrick and bastardo are likely around 10M themselves. That's with them not picking up Halladay's option and how ever much Gonzalez will make isn't factored in.
The reality is that the Phillies have 6 players making 104.75 Million. They have about 60 million to fill out the remaining 19 roster spots. I assume Kendrick goes nowhere, that's probably roughly 6 or 7 million Bastardo at around 2-3M, Frandsen around 1M Let's presume maybe 5M for Gonzalez (hard to gauge if that's whaty it will be or not, no real details but I assume it's backloaded) so those guys I presume stick around let's say around 2M for Revere and Mayberry. If that's all true they have then about 40M for the 13 remaining players. Which basically in reality means they have about 30M to spend in FA. Not 60M.
you suck at reading.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Is B- "very good" now?
Why does Cliff Lee need to get better? He's still one of the top 5-10 pitchers in the NL.
Hamels has been a bit unlucky this yr, but he's still young and still an ace.
Utley and Howard are still productive players. And Brown is a stud. And probably the most important thing you are forgetting is that they have tons of money to spend. They have at least 20 million more to spend this off-season with Halladay off the books. They could sign 2-3 or big name FA"s this off-season.
You are fooling yourself if you think the Philthies are going to be crappy for awhile. They're a borderline .500 team without a healthy Halldaday and a bunch of other players on their DL this season.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Where do you get "borderline" .500? They're 7 under right now, and were playing a bit above their heads earlier. Howard is a platoon player, old, and will be perpetually hurt, just like Utley (though Utley isn't a platoon player).
Halladay will never be Halladay again. No bullpen. And Lee and Hamels better start 34 games with a sub-3 ERA to have a shot. They're 3rd for a few years.