GDT: 4/7/'15 - Atlanta Braves (Wood) @ Miami Marlins (Latos) 7:35PM EST

thethe said:
I've bashed JS plenty in the past about those trades he made. But based on what I've read the past few months I feel sick to my stomach how I supported Wren.
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What you read is the ex-bravesitis that this team always churns out. Doesn't make it anymore true then when the Leo got bashed for not coddling our young pitchers and holding their hands.

Wren was the scapegoat and all the bad things about this team got put on him whether right or wrong.
 
gilesfan said:
Just to be clear, thethe is not dumb. He's a smart guy. He's just an incredible homer to the degree I'm not sure I have ever seen. So, I like to give him crap about it bc it is entertaining.

thethe, if the Braves acquired a bunch of power hitters this offseason, I 100% believe your narrative would be "Im older and I've learned. Power hitters are going to be so rare and we have a ton of them."
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I appreciate your comments but no need to defend me. It doesn't hurt me if someone on a message board calls me dumb.

What kind of power hitters are they? What are their contact rates? What positions do they play?

All these things matter.
 
thewupk said:
What you read is the ex-bravesitis that this team always churns out. Doesn't make it anymore true then when the Leo got bashed for not coddling our young pitchers and holding their hands.

Wren was the scapegoat and all the bad things about this team got put on him whether right or wrong.
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We all believe what we want to believe. Nobody knows the truth so for you to say the things that are out there are not true is just as much of an opinion as me saying they are.
 
thethe said:
We all believe what we want to believe. Nobody knows the truth so for you to say the things that are out there are not true is just as much of an opinion as me saying they are.
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You are right. Every negative thing about the Braves that got put on Wren may be true. I just have a hard time beleiving it when I look back at the past decade and see what happens when the Braves throw somebody under the bus.
 
thewupk said:
What you read is the ex-bravesitis that this team always churns out. Doesn't make it anymore true then when the Leo got bashed for not coddling our young pitchers and holding their hands.

Wren was the scapegoat and all the bad things about this team got put on him whether right or wrong.
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From what I know, that had little, if anything, to do with Leo being let go.
 
thewupk said:
You are right. Every negative thing about the Braves that got put on Wren may be true. I just have a hard time beleiving it when I look back at the past decade and see what happens when the Braves throw somebody under the bus.
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Unless you believe people like Bill Shanks are an extension of the Braves then I just don't see the Braves organization throwing anyone under the bus.
 
Disclaimer: I support the rebuild and I acknowledge the Braves could have won 90+ games this year. I also don't like Wren all that much while acknowledging that he built some good teams during his time.
 
thethe said:
Unless you believe people like Bill Shanks are an extension of the Braves then I just don't see the Braves organization throwing anyone under the bus.
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When it's coming from Braves beat writers and other people that follow the team then that should tell you something. It could be that the Braves aren't doing this and all these indepedant news sources got the same idea on their won.
 
thewupk said:
When it's coming from Braves beat writers and other people that follow the team then that should tell you something. It could be that the Braves aren't doing this and all these indepedant news sources got the same idea on their won.
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But how do you define the Braves? Is it a scout that is friendly with a beat writer? Does it have to come from centralized management?

People talk and reporters report.

Do you not think that this type of information comes out about other organizations? We just don't follow those teams.
 
thethe said:
But how do you define the Braves? Is it a scout that is friendly with a beat writer? Does it have to come from centralized management?

People talk and reporters report.

Do you not think that this type of information comes out about other organizations? We just don't follow those teams.
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It could but I'm not concerned about other teams. I just don't believe that Wren was an evil egomaniac who was out of control. Which is what the Braves want everyone to believe.
 
Braves scored less than 700 runs in both 2013 and 2014. That happened only one other time (2011) during Wren's tenure. Now, granted, the decline in offense across baseball is a trend, but I don't think anyone could contend that replacing Chipper Jones with Chris Johnson and Brian McCann (even though he was in decline) with Evan Gattis didn't have a marked effect on the Braves' offense. You think of some of the other position flips (Escobar for Alex Gonzalez, Bourn for M. Upton) that have happened over the years and you can see how things have fallen off.

There are a lot of ways to score runs. Power has been the most reliable way to do that and will continue to be, but I don't see how anyone can deny that the team became more one-dimensional in 2013 and 2014 and the inability to put strikes in play is a gaping weakness. You can't put runners in motion if the guy at the plate can't put the bat on the ball. It was just a bad mix of players.
 
Regarding thethe's contention that the game is moving away from power hitters... i was reading CBS' top 10 NL players this morning.

1. McCutchen
2. Stanton
3. Posey
4. Lucroy
5. Goldschmidt
6. Puig
7. Rizzo
8. Gomez
9. Heyward
10. Tulowitzki

This list factored in everything (speed, defense, position)... but there's an awful lot of power in that list
 
sturg33 said:
Regarding thethe's contention that the game is moving away from power hitters... i was reading CBS' top 10 NL players this morning.

1. McCutchen
2. Stanton
3. Posey
4. Lucroy
5. Goldschmidt
6. Puig
7. Rizzo
8. Gomez
9. Heyward
10. Tulowitzki

This list factored in everything (speed, defense, position)... but there's an awful lot of power in that list
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And what if we compared that list to five years ago? 10 years ago? Would we see a trend in who was considered the "best" players?

I wouldn't consider McCutch/Posey/Lucroy/Puig/Gomez/Heyward "power" hitters.
 
The way to score runs is always and will always be getting on base and hitting for power. You can steal all the bases you want, but they make you feel better about the offense moreso than they help you score more runs.

Teams that are good situational hitters are typically teams that aren't good hitters. If you have good hitters, you don't want them giving themselves up. The problem with the Braves offense last year was that they had too many crappy hitters, not that they didn't put the ball in play or were crappy situational hitters.

The worst situational hitting team in the NL last year was the Nationals...who happened to score the 3rd most runs in the NL. The Dodgers were the 5th worse situational hitting team and scored the 3rd most runs.

Runs/Game:

Col 1st in situational hitting

LAD 11th

Wash 15th

Pit 13th

SF 8th

Best situational hitting teams:

Col 1st in runs

Cin 13th in runs

Ari 11th in runs

Mil 6th in runs

SD 15th in runs

NYM 8th in runs
 
thethe said:
And what if we compared that list to five years ago? 10 years ago? Would we see a trend in who was considered the "best" players?

I wouldn't consider McCutch/Posey/Lucroy/Puig/Gomez/Heyward "power" hitters.
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Why on earth would you not consider McCuthen to be a power hitter? And to a lesser degree Puig/Posey/Lucroy/Gomez
 
gilesfan said:
The way to score runs is always and will always be getting on base and hitting for power. You can steal all the bases you want, but they make you feel better about the offense moreso than they help you score more runs.

Teams that are good situational hitters are typically teams that aren't good hitters. If you have good hitters, you don't want them giving themselves up. The problem with the Braves offense last year was that they had too many crappy hitters, not that they didn't put the ball in play or were crappy situational hitters.

The worst situational hitting team in the NL last year was the Nationals...who happened to score the 3rd most runs in the NL. The Dodgers were the 5th worse situational hitting team and scored the 3rd most runs.

Runs/Game:

Col 1st in situational hitting
LAD 11th
Wash 15th
Pit 13th
SF 8th

Best situational hitting teams:
Col 1st in runs
Cin 13th in runs
Ari 11th in runs
Mil 6th in runs
SD 15th in runs
NYM 8th in runs
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But guys like Uggla have to hit for power to have any value. They are next to worthless if they don't.
 
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