Oh yeah, for sure, I agree completely. I think that is the essence of the entire debate here.
More apeaceful Protesting in Baltimore
- Thread starter gilesfan
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Oh yeah, for sure, I agree completely. I think that is the essence of the entire debate here.
57Brave
Well-known member
Why not afford inner inner city people the same educational opportunities. Sen Sanders in his speech over the weekend made the point .
As far as your brother perhaps he had deeper resources for advise.
To the manor born -- is that our society
57Brave
Well-known member
During an interview on ABC's "This Week," host George Stephanopoulos asked the 73-year-old Vermont senator if it's really possible for someone like him to be elected president. Sanders, who identifies as a democratic socialist, announced his White House run last week.
"Well, so long as we know what democratic socialism is," he said. "And if we know that in countries, in Scandinavia, like Denmark, Norway, Sweden, they are very democratic countries, obviously. The voter turnout is a lot higher than it is in the United States. In those countries, health care is the right of all people. And in those countries, college education, graduate school is free."
When Stephanopoulos said Republicans were likely to jump all over Sanders for saying the U.S. should be more like Scandinavia, the senator said he has no problem with that.
"That's right. And what's wrong with that?" Sanders said. "What's wrong when you have more income and wealth equality? What's wrong when they have a stronger middle class in many ways than we do, higher minimum wage than we do, and they are stronger on the environment than we do?"
.....As The Huffington Post's Jonathan Cohn notes, there's an important distinction between a democratic socialist and what many Americans may think of when they hear the word "socialist." Democratic socialism is a milder, more aspirational form of the ideology. Instead of actively pursuing the goal of government running large industries, a democratic socialist focuses on far less radical objectives, like making the welfare state more generous and limiting the influence of money on politics."
"Well, so long as we know what democratic socialism is," he said. "And if we know that in countries, in Scandinavia, like Denmark, Norway, Sweden, they are very democratic countries, obviously. The voter turnout is a lot higher than it is in the United States. In those countries, health care is the right of all people. And in those countries, college education, graduate school is free."
When Stephanopoulos said Republicans were likely to jump all over Sanders for saying the U.S. should be more like Scandinavia, the senator said he has no problem with that.
"That's right. And what's wrong with that?" Sanders said. "What's wrong when you have more income and wealth equality? What's wrong when they have a stronger middle class in many ways than we do, higher minimum wage than we do, and they are stronger on the environment than we do?"
.....As The Huffington Post's Jonathan Cohn notes, there's an important distinction between a democratic socialist and what many Americans may think of when they hear the word "socialist." Democratic socialism is a milder, more aspirational form of the ideology. Instead of actively pursuing the goal of government running large industries, a democratic socialist focuses on far less radical objectives, like making the welfare state more generous and limiting the influence of money on politics."
57Brave
Well-known member
so, perhaps more institutional opportunity that expands the middle class rather than feed these people to the police.
The police are stuck too ! One of the things I heard out of the Baltimore riots was someone heard an interview from Bmore where the person noted there arre no men. that was what he heard. There are boys and old men but, no men. When asked where they were the interviewer was told, "dead or in prison". there are no blue collar jobs that afford the opportunity to do nothing more than tread water. And as noted above, when one tries to improve but is rebuffed at every turn well, frustration will kick in. And frustrated people do scary things. And the system we live under in this case the police are left to clean up the mess. Hardly the job or life they sign up for either
Y'all are arguing this all wrong -- why not see how to make inner city life better -- we've tried the other way and this is what you get.
It gets back to jobs -- education and health care. Those three things in a nut shell ----- the welfare of our people
The police are stuck too ! One of the things I heard out of the Baltimore riots was someone heard an interview from Bmore where the person noted there arre no men. that was what he heard. There are boys and old men but, no men. When asked where they were the interviewer was told, "dead or in prison". there are no blue collar jobs that afford the opportunity to do nothing more than tread water. And as noted above, when one tries to improve but is rebuffed at every turn well, frustration will kick in. And frustrated people do scary things. And the system we live under in this case the police are left to clean up the mess. Hardly the job or life they sign up for either
Y'all are arguing this all wrong -- why not see how to make inner city life better -- we've tried the other way and this is what you get.
It gets back to jobs -- education and health care. Those three things in a nut shell ----- the welfare of our people
My brother didn't have that opportunity. Why is everyone entitled to a certain level of anything?
My brother didn't have specialized advise. He has a brain.
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
i certainly disagree with that (death penalty)
but before all that can happen, you have rights that can't be taken away. thus why you had a trial etc. even if you are a "criminal"
What rights? Why are you speaking in abstracts?
I'm not disputing due cause, innocent until proven guilty, etc. That's a given.
I can only think of one right that can't be 'taken away' in the context of your original post; speedy and public trial.
How apropos.
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
i don't think it is a given when you read the words of thethe etc
This really isn't the thread to discuss this, but I will reply anyways.
I just can't get behind public health care. Healthcare is available to everyone already. And it most certainly is affordable. Nixing the pre-existing conditions is about the only good thing ObamaCare has done. I would, however, make it so that all children have health care completely covered until they turn 18.
I do think we need to improve education substantially, specifically k-12 education. For college education, it isn't like people who want to go to college don't have access to it. There are plenty of grants, scholarships, and financial aid available for anyone who wishes to pursue a degree.
57Brave
Well-known member
Just can't get past the word "welfare" huh?
57Brave
Well-known member
Essentially we are saying the same things. You are against public health care but would cover children to 18. What about over 65, or disabled or ...
The second part to me says you did not read the report from Moyers. Grants and scholarships are great as long as the playing field is equal. As long the student is competently advised and is aware of what is and isn't there. People here seem to take for granted everyone in the USA has what they have. Well, "my brother (sister,cousin the shmo down the street) did it why can't they"
IF it were that simple. In fact that is a huge part of the problem the huge disconnect between the middle classes. Upper Middle and lower middle. As far as financial aid, that was the point of the Moyers report and the issue Sen Warren is riding. Unequal opportunity not only in access to the books but unequal access to the money to pay for the books.
Please, bear in mind we are talking about people where maybe there is an adult in the home. If in fact there is a home.
and why I think the issue is the disappearing middle class in the inner cities
I think this is very germane to this thread. This is where the riots originate.
That would be you, my friend.
While there are grants and stuff for poor, the issue is getting the poor kids to that point. Middle and High school when they're growing in that crucial maturity stage is what determines if they can escape poverty or not. poverty either becomes too burdensome for them indirectly which directly effects their environment and development or it keeps them in the vicious cycle.
Looks down the street to the public housing project, picks a house:
- Rent: free
- Primary Education: free
- School meals, books, activities: free
- Internet, Mobile phone: free
- Food: free
- Spending money per child (incentive to have more children): liquidity
How is this system disadvantaging anyone that is a part of it?
Look, we all know what your solution is: throw more money (not yours, clearly) at it.
I'm looking for a different perspective here. One that actually A) might work and B) hasn't proven itself to be an utter socioeconomic catastrophe.
What is wrong with spending time in public housing? Heaven forbid.
It might behoove you a bit to quit looking down your nose when trying to 'fix' the 'problem'.
57Brave
Well-known member
We are already spending $$$$ on top of $$$. In incarceration alone !
We are preparing to equip police with body cams. Well and good
BUT, why not invest that money in day care for working families. Or, apprentice programs ---
It works in places like oh say .... Norway-Netherlands -
or is it that old time American Exceptionalism kicking in. Or perhaps the word Socialism. Kinda like your reaction to the word Welfare
57Brave
Well-known member
Your post indicated you see free public housing and lower class life as a day at the beach.